Goin' for a Stroll

You're sitting, staring at the same boss you've already lost to at least 32 times today, when it hits you: I can peek at the walkthrough. Just for this part, and really quickly. A smile plays on your lips and you've surfed to Google. In no time you've figured out that only X formation and Y weapon combination are effective on the right head, while ... You get the idea. You've defeated this monster. But can you defeat the urge to peek?

I play RPGs. I do not use walkthroughs, ever. For this reason a 40 hour game can take me up to 78 hours to complete - and I love every frustrating, desperate minute. I have never used a walkthrough for an RPG (however, I do remember using one for some Donkey Kong title for SNES about 7 years ago). The 'why' is simple: I play for the challenge. I don't even play to 'win' or complete the game, necessarily.

However, it is not that I consider using a walkthrough to be cheating. It is a game and, in the case of a traditional RPG, a single-player game. It's not really a matter of winning or not or of cheating. It's the player, the controller, the console. No audience to appease, no trophy to earn, not even a parent to impress (well, in most cases). The only quality that RPGs have that is similar to games or sports that one can cheat at is a feeling of satisfaction when all is said and done. It's cheesy, hokey and it sounds like something mother would say, but you only cheat yourself. And I, personally, want to be entertained as long as humanly possible by the title I choose, and then I might even hang around for a second play-through.

A walkthrough seems too much like a script to me. Or at least stage notes. 'Take the fork to the left to live, the fork to the right to meet the dragon' - where's the fun in that? If you want to listen to someone's directions, do homework. If you want to think creatively, be challenged and have fun, try it without the walkthrough. That level 42 Kobold's not that scary the 8th time around. Really.

I do realize that too much frustration and annoyance can sour even the sweetest video game, though. In cases like this, I recommend asking a friend who has played it through for a hint. Everyone needs advice. I am no exception. Failing this (for those of you who are the only gamer or a closet gamer among your circle of friends), downloading the walkthrough and using it for the very rare, uber-frustrating spots is no crime. (By uber-frustrating I mean the 'I am about to hurl my Chameleon controller at the flat screen, thus disabling it for the rest of eternity if I do not beat this dragon NOW!' type annoyance. Why endanger expensive equipment?) But relying on a walkthrough to take you through all difficulties and using it as a crutch is not playing the game. And having that print-out, even with the sole intention of helping you through that one spot, is a lottery. What's to stop you from using it at the next, then the next, and so on?

It is not only the complete walkthroughs, either. The 'official playing guide junkies' can be just as guilty. At least in this case the guide is just that, a guide. Not a script. I actually own the official guide for both Metroid Fusion and Metroid Prime (it is one book), though mainly because I found it for $0.50 at a thrift sale, and who could pass that up? There were also a few other guides I've considered purchasing, Suikoden 3's among them. I didn't, though. I wanted to do it alone. And I did, eventually (eventually being over 110 hours later).

Really, though, what harm is there in a game that holds one's attention for 110 hours (as long as you're still up on personal hygiene and not failing classes)? Even if you had to turn it off often, for fear of pitching the controller at a kitten, you were entertained, busy and eventually you 'won' - not to mention the trees you saved by not printing off the 130 page complete walkthrough for FFX.

I always buy a RPG guide as a memento of the RPG if the guide comes out here and if the RPG's good. If I get stuck the temptation is there to have a look how to do what I'm stuck on straight away, even if I could do the part with time. The temptation is agonizingly hard to resist if you have a guide and know you can get past what your stuck on in a second or if you are connected to the Internet and can look up a online guide in minutes, so the only way to enjoy RPG's and not have the thought you can get on with the game without being frustrated spoiling it is to not have the option of having a guide to read or have a PC to search for online guides with, I cant see many people giving up the Internet so it'll make there RPGing experience more rewarding though.

When I was younger I didn't have guides or a PC so I had to figure things out for myself, the bad side to that was that I couldn't play games very well due to my age and inexperience at RPGing. I remember BOFIII, a easy RPG that I would be able to do with ease now, but back then I got stuck on the most stupidly easy part where all I had to do was go into a room and turn the camera angle to see something, talk to it and get a password off it. I couldn't find it though and after something like a week I gave up. Four months later I brought it's guide and laughed at how I got stuck on the most easy thing, all that would've been needed was a look in a guide and it would've saved me feeling aggravated with BOFIII for all those months. Using a guide for RPG's when your new to RPGing is something I think everyone should do, especially when young since it may be more rewarding but even the easiest puzzle can turn out plain annoying and aggravating at that stage.

Something like a year after I got my BOFIII guide though I brought WA, a challenging and rewarding RPG. I still didn't have a PC and you couldn't buy a guide for WA here, but I was a bit more experienced with RPG's at that point. WA took me a while to do since I got stuck a fair few times, but I did it without much help and it sure felt good. I don't think I would've enjoyed WA as much had it not being for the challenge and reward of not using a guide, but at the same time I think I would have only grew aggravated with WA if I was still new to the RPG genre.

Being experienced with RPG's and not using a guide can make your experience better, but being inexperienced with RPG's and not using a guide can make your experience worse.



Well..... Even though I could do FFX easy without a guide, I brought it since I collect guides as mementos .

Very good topic. Guides are one of those things that can be good or evil. Personally I admit I have used them in the past. Ive never played a game along with a walkthrough, i only used it as a quick reference when i was stuck on a certain part and was ready to break the controller. Like how RpgLord mentioned it was the same case for me. When I was younger and very new to RPGs I was completely lost. I would use bits and pieces of guides to help me along my way. I think that using guides when being new to gaming, can help provide you with some experience. I dont think using full on walkthroughs and playing the entire game by following the entire walkthrough is helpful, but little tips do help give a nudge in the right direction. Sometimes people need a little hint to get where they need to go. Now I have broke myself of using walkthroughs completely, I try to do the best I can on my own, even if it takes a few weeks to figure out a solution. Overall for me it brings a certain satisfaction to beat a game on my own. However I dont think I would be playing RPGs now, If I didnt have some direction from walkthroughs in my younger days. I would have just gotten frustrated and given up probably.

Wow nice editorial, and some VERY nice opinions.



This also goes for me. Coming from a Latin familly wich most of the times doens't have money to spend on buying there son "Stupid games". I love RPGS and all games in genral (execpt puzzle but thats a diffrent story), and when i get one its very Rare.

I usally borrow them scince i get one from my parents like once a year. *Hits himself on the head and tells himself to get on topic* Walktroughs do speed up the game, it basiclly reads it out like a story to you, telling you the does and dont's, and i also personally like to get all i can out of my 50 bucks.

I usually snag a guide after I beat a game to see if I missed any bonuses or secret quests, but try to avoid them when I'm playing the game through for the first time. I think it ruins the fun if you're going to bother reading through something that's going to spill everything...

And Faery, where's the feminazi editorial? WHERE'S THE GIRLS PERSPECTIVE?

I'm dissapointed to say the least.

I personally use FAQ's for the optional things. I didn't use one for Suikoden 3. Or the collectable things. (like Stardust on Legend of Dragoon), or look at characters for the fun of it. Some people are like "this character sucks because his/her defense sucks." You raise them and say "they don't suck, they're one of the best characters!" Other than that, I really don't use them that much.

I hold the same ideas as Evil Dead...for the most part I play straight through an entire game untill the point that I either complete it or can't go further. In which case I start over with a guide to compare the two journeys and by god lemme tell ya...I am....STUPID. In most cases a gamer comes across an important climax in the game they either A) Don't screw up or Even if they do a backup save file always helps. I...fail to do either. Every rpg I can recall a stupid moment where I stuck myself so bad I shoulda started over . But with cut time from work and classes and the fact of the piles of games building up on my I always wanted to finish or fuggin' START...I am omitting my first adventure of complete stupidity and just going through the game guided only to think and laugh at what I probably would have done if I wasn't luckily being assisted by some friggin' paper. Go figure...paper's smarter than I heh.
I've played a few newer titles that it seems unless you have a guide...you'll make mistakes and have to spend countless hours correcting them or even to move on in the game. I basically don't have that much time. Wish I could go through a game twice and experience it the best way I can...but sigh...for now I'll just be cowardly and use a guid

Nice views on things ladies and gentlemen...question though..I DID mention I'm stupid and apologize for the length(I planned to keep it short but I never get to share these kinds of topics) but uh...am I allowed to post here? heh

same as The Evil Dead, i use the guide to find out what i have missed, as i wanna know the game inside out (the story, characters's history, everything) and also to find out what's am i missing (side quests, bounes e.t.c) . of coz i would buy the guide after i completed the game without using it. it's the real joy when you have beaten the challenge.

Wow, i ALWAYS use the guides... I think I've spent around 140 bucks on Strategy GUides alone.

I mean, sure I play for the challenge, but I play more for the best the game has to offer, whether that means that I have to see how to get them, that doesn't matter to me..

I also like to love the game, not love the challenge. If i spent 20 hours training my characters, that would piss me off. So I'll also use gamesharks and code breakers etc...

Even though it's cheating, I get to know the characters better, and remember more of the plotline without having to have my game jumbled up by having to go do stupid sidequests, or to spend lots of time training.

I also get to know the game inside and out by readin the guides, so that if i ever need to help a friend, or decide to play the game again, i kno exactly what to do.

This is a great topic, and some very interesting points were brought up. I always argue with my friends over this one. I love RPG's and the thrill they bring when I play them. I love the mystery, the emotions, and the challenge. I feel that when you use a guide/ walkthrough, it detracts from the sense of accomplishment. It's a natural human instinct. Everybody loves to say, "I did it all by myself!" I make it a point that using codes, cheats, and borrowed information does some of that work for you. I used a guide once, after 150 hours on Final Fantasy X. It was fun for a while, but when I finished, I didn't have that same feeling of pride, even when I obtained the Magus Sisters. I also didn't feel the emotions of the game as it went by. I found myself thinking only about accomplishing the goal: victory. By the time I got my next game, I was ready to go it alone again.
In conclusion, I just would like to state the cliché, "To each his own" because it is true. Some people like to use guides and tips. I, for one, just don't have the stomach for it. However, it is true that RPG's are challenging and time-consuming games, and we should try to live them to their fullest.

-Swordstrife-

Hey this is a good subject i find myself constantly debating the use of walkthroughs. I personaly think that games have two major components; the story and the gameplay. To play a game to a full potential both should be played fairly evenly especialy RPGs. I dont use walkthroughs because it isn't realy me playing but a magazize writen by someone else. Although when those tough spots detract from the game, like once when i spent 2 days trying to figure out a Wild Arms puzzle, i first spent 2 days working through it and then consulted by little brother who often looks at the problem diffrenty for some TIPS rather then actual answers. But occasionaly i look up specific problems after i am unsuccesfull after many days even after TIPS, like when i couldnt figure out what i was missing to get an elevator to work even though i had powered it up, it turns out i forgot to manualy shut the door.
However the majority of the time its best to keep trying w/o the guides. I spend alot of my level gaining trying to get past places, and find more items trying to lvl up to beat a boss. The hardest places to beat are often the best parts of the game because they give you REAL WORLD RPG, when Cloud, Tidus or any other character hits a bump in the road do THEY quit? NO OF COURSE NOT!!! other wise the first mini-boss or puzzle or maze comes along the game would be over.
So the long and short of it is its fine to use them if you want but its your choices and actions wich determine the game and how realistic it is, but me im going to stick to the cheaper old fashioned way.

thanks for your time

BlueRose

Excellant topic and I think that guides are good to use but only AFTER you have beaten the game. I have never used a guide before i finished a game i buy them for the extra info and the pics and stuff like that i figure out the game myself otherwise there is no point in playing it if ur gonna read the story before you even play the game. anyway my opinion is that its not cheating if you have beatin the game already otherwise i think it is even in those really tight spots i have goting stuck many times but i only buy the guide after i have beatin that paticular game and im not as tempted to get help from it that way. anyway agian nice topic. peace

- not to mention the trees you saved by not printing off the 130 page complete walkthrough for FFX.


How the ##### are u saving a tree if its already dead?
Stop being such a retard! "look at me, im not gonna use 130 pages in my printer cuz i wanna save a tree" Thats not saving a tree moron...thats just not using a dead tree!!

geez. i hate ##### idiots.
people like you should be killed off with some kind of STD.

Thats a pretty messed up thing to say to somebody 'guest'. Its kinda funny that you mention how the tree is dead.. think about it the tree was alive at one point, and thus was made dead when cut down to be used to make some paper.

Also which I find hilarious is that we need trees to live. See when you take a breath of air, you inhale oxygen. When you exhale you breath out carbon dioxide. Trees absorb this carbon dioxide and turn it into oxygen. Without trees we all would be pretty dead from lack of air.

Also arent you so high and mighty as to call someone a retard and then make a statement that idiots should be killed off by STDs. If your going to disagree with someone, atleast do it politely

- Eh mod delete this if you want, I understand it isnt important just had to vent a bit of frustration -

Wow, lots of u guys are against guides. I'm 100% for them

hey "guest" watch your mouth. this is a forum about RPGs so cut the crap and paste it on a site that has people who want to hear it.

-Bluerose

DAG GIRL! Wrote yet another GREAT editorial! Man, you changed me. I use walkthroughs but you've challenged me! For my next RPG NO WALKTHROUGH! (Oi...FFX-2 is gonna be a pain to beat with out one but hey...what the heck! *heh*) The only games I have not used a walkthrough on thus far are probably FFVIII, Jak and Daxter, and Spyro. So I'm pretty pathetic. But ya know, My favorite Video Game, FFX, I don't use my Walkthrough anymore. Yes, it's true, I've beat that game 5 times now (playing it for a 6th before FFX-2 ) so I've practically memorized it...*heh* But anyway, thanks!
-Kumo

Hey...this is "Meth962" from above hehe I told ya I was stupid...but I got registered! ^^

I'm glad you said something before I did, Gene, I wouldn't have gone so easy. That was totally rude and arrogant...hehe...and if he/she wanted to argue they should've had some brains about what they're talking about.

Anywho, with the recent spare time shortage in my life I am with Laguna. I don't have time to go through the game and experience it how I should doing everything my way...which includes: missing lots of items, getting stuck on puzzles for days, backtracking and getting lost etc...lol
So sadly to say instead of struggling and having fun with the challenge to start over with a guide once completion is breached...I now only play with guides

Games are made to be played for the challenge, not just to be beaten as fast as possible with a guide. You get more for your money when you beat it slowly, the way it was meant to be completed. Sure, strategy guides help, and I usually buy the guide after I've completed the game once, then go through again searching for everything I missed. I don't use them myself until the game's done, but I take a neutral stance in the argument of "use them or not."

Poor, poor guest, not even worth listening to. I pity these 11 year olds who find it fun to make anonymous flame posts to make themselves feel better.

This is why I love posting here. Everyone is so polite and fun (and when they're not, oh do they get it!)!

Great opinions, everyone. I missed you all when I was away ... and I am not kidding.

Hehe Yeah I agree with you Meth, I wanted to flame him real bad, but I collected and reserved myself. I would have been just as immature as him, if I had gone to his level. So I try my best to be respectful when I disagree with something

Anyways On to the topic. I reserved my copy of FFX-2 and when the guy asked me if I wanted to get the strategy guide with it, it reminded me of this thread. I did decide to purchase the strategy guide, but I did hesitate for a moment. I mean Ive never really relied on guides, to heavily, but I figured why not. Its supposed to have lots of stuff in it, and i saw them sitting in the corner of gamestop, its one thick guide. However now that Ill have this guide sitting in my house, Im afraid Ill be tempted to look.Excuse my rambling, boredom has set in, waiting to get me game tomorrow.

PS I look forward to your next editorial FaErY

Guides are spoiler ya know. It makes me dont want to play it after I read it. Yah, coz I know the story already. Its more fun for us if we didn't know what will happen next. Yeah, Curiosity dude XD. Use guides just when u stuck. Otherwise, try to solve it by urself.

noobs

A very interesting topic

Well, first of all let me say that In my 15 years of Playing Rpg's I cannot honestly say that I have never used a walkthrough. I have played and finished so many frustrating and difficult games that one is bound to have been tempted to check a few guides on the way.
I agree that you play for the challenge and that the satisfaction of finding the solution to a puzzle or dungeon can be very satisfying when you do it on your own..But it all depends on your personality.

Example: the last game I finished ( 2 days ago ) Tales of Destiny 2, it took me about 93 hours ,collected more than 88% of all items, monsters etc.But the last fight drove me mad. I tried at least 27 times in vain ( I was level 67 ),I managed to kill the "sucker" but then, he casts a stupid spell something like " SUPER MEGA INFINITE NO CHANCE OF SURVIVING EVER HAR HAR HAR LEVEL 10000" (Not the real name but the one it should have been called ) and GAME OVER.

What I'm getting at is that I do get extremely frustrated by these kind of things and when I do, I tend to throw my pad,joystick, whatever I can get hold of on the floor,at the T.V, the console …Basically I go MAD….
So in these rare occasions when I feel like killing the people who programme these games ( I had a few of these with XENOSAGA …).
I feel that a hint would be a better alternative than a broken
Pad.Especially when the solution is something totally stupid ( like press three buttons at the same time :TOD2) that only work once in 200 times so even if you had pressed the three buttons like you were supposed to when you were supposed to, chances are you wouldn't have succeeded anyway and kept thinking that you were supposed to do something else to get rid of the "Bastard".
And 2 months later you could still be stuck in the same position.With no hair left on your head.

So anyway, what I want to say is that I do agree that it is much more satisfying to play the game without a guide or step by step walkthrough, they are useful and like anything else as long as you don't over-induldge yourself by reading the whole thing they can make you continue a game you would've otherwise given up on.

As long as you can control yourself and "JUST SAY NO!" ;-) .As it is tempting to go and check it every time you feel you are stuck! Once in a while when desperate,it can not only save your controller from total destruction but also make you continue playing the game instead of giving up! It's all a question of self-discipline.....

I know, what you think :how can I have any self-discipline when I keep throwing and smashing my pads?!!! But that's another topic...

I use them, but for two reasons.

1) After I go through a game, I use them to see if I missed something. Or in the case of "stupid" games in which you can miss getting tons and tons of things, I use it to make sure I'm "up to date".

2) If I'm not going to play a game for a while, as in I don't have it or it got that boring to sit and deal with, I'll look up a walkthrough to see some things that happen.

I cand efeat the urge to look at a walkthrough, not matter the situation, I explore every avenure and always coem up with a result. It doesn't hurt to stop and think somtimes.

But seriously, would you want to pay £40-£50 just to ruin the experience you were supposed to earn yourself, it's rather weak, same goes with cheating.

Nice Article Faery ^_\\\

Well I Usually use strategy guides...also I buy them for collection purposes too..I mean I like to use them becuase they tell me how to get rare items and secrets and stuff, I don't cheat however as I dont even have a action replay or code breaker..lol

But as for games like Suikoden 1-3 and Star Ocean 1 and 2 I played through those games without a guide and beat them fine, but I did spend a lot of time on them though.