I had no idea this was even available until few nights ago when I spotted it on youtube. Its an anime thats around 25mins long and is narrated by Tseng, who is heading the operation to recapture Zack and Cloud after they escaped Shinra mansion. It jumps between their getaway and the real events of 5 years ago ,and serves to clear things up for those who were confused by the explanation in the game. It also serves as the backbone for the game Crisis core thats being made. I thought it was pretty good, suprisingly for the insight it gives on Tseng, who appeared alot more compassionate imo that he ever did in the game. I would really like to own it but apparently it was only available with an ultimate version of the FFVII:AC dvd, which wasn't available here.

Interestingly enough, this oversight lead me to check out if I'd missed any other parts of the compilation of FFVII that Square is creating to apparently I had :spoilers coming up:

I found feauted on wikipedia :



This may seem pretty insignificant, but apparently the story revealed it was the efforts of Aeris, Zack and Dyne amongst others who aided the team on their journey who had died, who caused the lifestream to come up at the right time to defeat meteor at the end of FFVII. This is a pretty significant plot point imo and I couldn't believe I'd never heard of it :



This seems less significant but also exists :



This would actually make some of my criticisms of FFVII:AC lessen sicne the story acts to introduce Densel, and the city of Edge, both which AC never really attempted to do or explain which annoyed me slightly.

Oh well, maybe it was just me that missed all this stuff, but I figured I'd share the info, and get opinions in what you guys think of the rest of the FFVII compilation outside of the games and the movie.

actually..those are all pointless stories ADDED to the story of FF VII to give it more meaning all of a sudden, or to have the characters more meaning all of a sudden, it is really lame and Squeenix should die for doing this. Same as they are currently trying to make Sephiroth the god of FF VII and Jenova the puppet.

Last Order was fun to watch, but rather *omg Sephi owns all* which is a lot of bullcrap as we know.
But if you're interested, I did made a musicvid with Last Order, it isn't special or anything, was more like testing out Premiere, but it came out fine imo. The link is in my sig though.

Well, Last Order comes with AC if you buy it, you can get it on the net also.

Although I agree with Pes, I like the thought that how the Lifestream managed to come out of all the sudden and protect the planet agaisnt Meteor. I wish they had explained that in the game or AC, that's just speculation, to fill the plot-holes to please the fanboys.

And if you want the AMV of LAst Order, click in the link of Pes' sig, it's very good.

[quote name='_Pesmerga_' date='May 21 2006, 07:44 AM' post='543975']
actually..those are all pointless stories ADDED to the story of FF VII to give it more meaning all of a sudden, or to have the characters more meaning all of a sudden, it is really lame and Squeenix should die for doing this. Same as they are currently trying to make Sephiroth the god of FF VII and Jenova the puppet.
quote]

I agree with what you're saying about trying to give characters meaning....but I don't see why that has to be a negative thing. I mean, if SE ake one of their most popular games, look at some of the weakest parts and say "Hey you know what, all the fans have pointed out these bits are weak, lets enhance them, lets try give them some emaning", why is hat a bad thing? Why does it have to be that if they didn't do it quite right first time around, it ahs to be left like that? Is it so people can continue to bitch about the bad points? Or are you just put out at the thought that if SE continue to enhance the weaker aspects you won't be able to bitch about them? There is no hidden objective here; I think its quite clear what they're donig and why they're doing it. So I don't quite understand why it is lame to try and make the characters and story points you think suck, better.

Watched your vid too, its pretty sweet XD don't try and pretend you weren't enjoying some of those Sephiroth ownage moments.

In regards to Fantasist, the UK edition didn't have last order on it which I was pretty gutted over since I did get the 2 disc edition.

Well, if they wanted to give the characters a meaning, they should've either programmed it into the game, or tell us sooner, but NOW all of a sudden they want to give Aerith more meaning then the rather pointless character she was in the game.

Squeenix is now whoring FF VII, which is quite annoying, cause they have other games aswell, but they are ignoring them, only serving the FF VII fanboys, cause that gives them more money, hooray for Squeenix.

Oh, I did enjoyed Sephiroth's moments in that movie, apart from when he jumps into the Lifestream himself, cause that is another attempt of Squeenix to make us believe it was Sephiroth all the way, though the Jenova believers could simpy say it was Jenova that made Sephiroth jump into the Lifestream =P.

The link to Youtube toned my vid a bit down though, which is unfortunate, but I had it linked somewhere else aswell, which is better quality Clicky

I appreciate your point, I do, but SE could not have possibly have known these character were not going to go over with the fans until the game wa sout, which rules out the programming bit. I also think yes, it has been a long time since the game came out, but also look at the size of the project they undertook in the compilation of FFVII. Plus it was likely on the books for a long while and delayed after the disaster of Spirits within, and the merger.



Sure it gives them money but lets also look at it logically; FFVII was a bigger more popular success than the other games. That means simply, that if they undertake this kind of project with this game then its going to please more people. Sure a compilation of VIII or IX could have been done bu simply less ans would have been pleased by doing it, and alot of people would have been left going "eh, what, tha makes no sense, FFVII was far more popular, and since it has more fans, more people would be coplaining there was no FFVII sequel. Yes, it makes business sense as far as cash goes, but it also makes business sense as far as the fans go to. At the end of the day more people are pleased than not pleased that all this FFVII stuff is happening. Perhaps it is not apparent since it ahs been proven time and time again than negative views will be advocated more than positive ones, but face it: people are happy in the majority here.



Roflmao. Ok, I'm not even going to aruge with that, I'll let you have that because it amde me laugh

Thanks for bringing light into this Shroom, I never bothered to look much into this stuff mainly because I'm just too lazy.

But I find it more of a good thing that Square actually made the effort to even go back and bother with some minor details of FFVII after all this time, at least people wont be left on the gutter anymore and things got explained as the way they should have been. ^^

No problem, for me it is just amazing that nearly ten years later something which started out only as a game is still going on, evolving, and having more light shed on the story. Its something I've grown up with and while I, as everyone does, have my criticisms of it, Its something I've grown up with and I think alot of people have since it was such a significant game at its time of release. Ijust think little things such as the stories are pretty interesting and just add into that legend and help the story grow and yes, make the bits that were weak, better.

Well, here's the thing: The events in Last Order REALLY happened. It's not that they're just making up some story now because they have no other ideas... Zack and Cloud escaping was a part of Cloud's history, and for those who want to know more about Cloud get to see what happened MORE in depth.

If they were like: Cloud really lived in Midgar his whole life but he deluded to thinking he lived in Nibelheim, then that'd be retarded cause htey're just making something up to please people.


But Last Order is just a more in depth view, nothing wrong with that.


And I didnt get Last Order with my DVD, wtf lol

Precisely, its like people complaining way back about "OMG PLOT HOLEZZZ NYUUU" and then when Square to develop that part to make it better people find it a bad thing, definitely its hard to please everyone.

Just to add, Wikipedia states that "(Last Order) was released with the "Ultimate Edition" of the movie (Advent Pieces: Limited). I have no idea if this was a japanese edition only or if it made it to the USA as well. All I know is the dition we got (UK) had two discs and neither has it on it I'd really like to have it as part of my collection, even just as a 25min dvd.

Well, my point is: almost 10 years after its release, they suddenly started to whore their franchise with 3 games and 2 movies, sorry man but that is a bit too much.

I like the idea of filling the plotholes, but the problem is they want to fill those plotholes with "sudden" #######.
Cause we all know Aerith called forth Holy and the Lifestream aided with that, but now ALL OF A SUDDEN everyone you knew and that died summoned Lifestream? Yeah right man, sounds a bit too farfetched for me, why now all of a sudden?

Why wait 10 years, why not earlier when everybody was speculating and had finished the game in 97-99.
What is the reason for this sudden milking and whoring..

Simply because the want money.

I'm with pes on this one, if they were to fill the plot-holes, they would just do it a few years after the release of the game.

They thought that if they waited long enough, the fanboys would go crazy to see more FF VII material and their dear Cloud in action.

I'm a FF VII fan, but i have to agree with pes, as much as i like having thse games based on FF VII, I think enough is enough...

I don't know how sudden that is. I thin k its a nice addition. I mean, who else was she gonna call upon to support her? Ok if she'd done something ridiculous like call upon every snigle deceased person ever in the game, but they did just pick the select few tragic cases. All they did was take the idea and give it a little depth. You guys accuse the game of plot holes and shallowness (not you guys specifically, I mean general arguments against), however when several select people who died duing the game are brought into the loop, this is SO far out there. I don't get it. I don't think this is any kind of strech, shes an acient. If she ahd he power to remain sentinent within the lifestream, why would she not seek those with powerful souls who's lives had been robbed of them in order to help?

No not simply because of money. In fact you then state:



So for some reason you're advocating a negative outlook based around money here, while also proving you know fine well that the fans play a large part in this too. Confusing imo. I've already gave arguments such as their near financial meltdown to explain the delay but apparently we'll jus tove rlook that, but hell, even if we do, then yes. If you have the choice of releasing it in ten years time in order to make the mos of the anticipation from fans then you do hat. As I've admitted and said, there doesn't seem to be a hidden motive here.



Yet I'm still getting this. I have told you the very obvious motives from SE and I will one more time. This all makes sense in relation to the fans AND profit.

I think if you guys are so blinded by the fact money takes a part here then you're having trouble grasping our entire way of life globally. Its really not that uncommon for people to do something in order to a) benefit the people they're serving AND benefit themselves. If it is so foreign to you that both of these work together in order for SE to continue as a company making games etc then this debate was lost a long time ago.

First I have to tell you one thing Shroom: it is always about the money, wether it be Final Fantasy, Suikoden or Star Ocean. It is always about the money, after that you get the fans and such.

Second about the Lifestream thing: You know that only Ancients could talk with the Planet and the Lifestream right? So how does someone like Dyne be able to talk with the Lifestream or send the Lifestream to aid Holy?
Or does everyone that dies become some sort of Planet's messenger or so?

Well for your first point, thats just different ideologies. You're simply manipulating the fact that SE want to make money to make them look bad and make you look right. Do not tell me that its about money like I'm stupid Pes, I am fully aware of how a business operates. It just so happens I'm not such a negative eprson and in this instance have some faith in SE that it is about both. So basically you're saying its jsut about cash and then the fans are an added bonus that follows on? What if there are no fans of what you're doing. Whats the primary focus then? Is it still jsut cash, cos cash isn't coming in. However, I'm also not naive enuogh toclaim that the fans come first cos vice verse, ans without cash also means nothing. Thats why I have consistantly argued that both are of equal important to continue the balance a company of SE's size needs to be successful in their endevours.

Also for the second point, yes I do still know that only ancients can do so, I established that myself earlier. I don't know how you come to this conclusion that everyone must be a messenger; if you seriously on't ge tthis, I'm suprised you got the game at all. Disagreeing with hat SE are saying is one thing, but if you're serious that you don't understand well, there you go, not much more needs to be said. However to humuor you I will again say: Aeris, who has the power to ove through the lifestream uses their support; the lfiestream is made upof the souls, energy and memories of those who have returned to the planet. By being able to travel through, and as you stated yourself "talk with the Planet and the Lifestream", she calls out and talks to them since they are a part of that lifestream now. Its really not that difficult to understand. If you think its stupid, I accept that, but I don't see why you actually wouldn't be able to understand the logic behind it to this extent.

you said that Dyne and others aided in calling dorth Lifestream to help Holy.
What seems wrong with that is this: Dyne is part of the Lifestream, a memory. Nothing more, how can a memory (being part of something) act on its own and aid the lifestream to attack Meteor, it just seems a bit too weird for me and who ever cared about Dyne...

I like the idea that Squeenix tries to give the game more meaning, but it is pointless, it is additional information released nearly 10 years after the original game and not much people were really waiting for this, it is just a sudden: "YOU know WHAT happened in the Lifestream 10 years ago!?! Well lets tell you now.

"you said that Dyne and others aided in calling dorth Lifestream to help Holy.
What seems wrong with that is this: Dyne is part of the Lifestream, a memory. Nothing more, how can a memory (being part of something) act on its own and aid the lifestream to attack Meteor, it just seems a bit too weird for me and who ever cared about Dyne..."

First of all, be accurate I didn't say nothing more, In fact I listed memories energy and spirits. Don't jsut look past things because it suits your argument.

Second of all, good question, how does a memory or spirit of a dead eprson do anything? How did Zack appear in the curch at the end of AC? In fact, how does a human of any kind remain sentinent after death and travel through a fluorescent green river attempting to active "materia" and "magic". You want the real answer pes? They can't. None of it can happen. Because its a game; a FANTASY if you will. Too weird? Its all weird pes. However, your ok with acceptin gother weird things, jsut not ones that coincedentally mean you can countinue to bitch about SE? Interesting that you completely abandoned your money argument on that last post too, funny eh? No, actually, its entirely predicatable. You've spent this entire debate pretending to be stupider than you really are inorder to prolong points that I counted long ago. You act as if things are too far fetched in order to continue to badmouth SE, even to a point were if makes you come across less intelligent than I know you are. I'm not going to humour this any longer but I think you know you actually have less to complain about than you put across. I'm just glad I have the capability to accept and enjoy change and progression.

...lol, don't think of me as a fool, I was talking about the game, how can it happen IN the game. Don't think of me as if I can't take games and real world apart, it is rather sad, you know.

And I am accurate, you said that about Dyne, Zack and the other party members. Zack is explainable cause he has Mako and Jenova Cells in him. But Dyne isn't explainable, cause he was just a human. You don't see humans talking to their dead relatives in the game now do you?

So how is it that Dyne was able to help Aeris? Cause he was a memory after all, that is why I am so negative about this.

Firs tof all, ok I won't treat you like a fool, I was just showing you what its like, since you have patronsied me several times so far.

Second of all I don't know what more I can say. I keep on emphasising the spirit part, but since you keep ignoring that and going back to memory, well ,you know as much as me. If you read the topic basis, I found the info on wikipedia, so I don't know what form he actually took or how it happened, you ould have to find an actually copy of the text online for that. I jsut don't think its that far fetched. Aeries was one of the ancients, she can speak to spirits and the voices of the planet, perhaps when it said dyne etc. aided her she was able to channel the power of their spirits through herself from the lifestream, they would not encessarily have had to even have been physically here I guess.

I think yes, SE have to keep within the boundaries they created when they originally explained how FFVII's world works to us in the game; I don't think this breaks that and if it doesn't, I think we have to accept what they're saying instead of questioning the very physics of it.

Also, Aerith wasn't fully Ancient since her father is Gast who was a human, so how much of her power does she actually have?
It is just that all these sudden additions of a game that old is rather too much and uncalled for.

AC, BC, CC, DC, Last Order, Ultimania Guides and whatever. This is purely milking one game, making it rather obvious they want more money, cause well Final Fantasy XII costed over 50 million dollar, which is a HUGE sum of money especially for a game.

50million dollars 0.0 wow.

Thats something I've been meaning to ask, can anyone shed any light of what this Ultimania guide thing is? I've sen it referenced all over the place, but I hve no idea what it is. Is it a game guide, or is it was plot points and stuff?

It is a guide of the Final Fantasy VII and VIII games (I know of so far) and in that guide it says how Sephiroth's will overpowered Jenova's will.
In a rather blatent unexplainable way, like when Sephi doesn't remember Cloud, SE says it was because he was lying. Or some other untrue lies.

It is really sad was Squeenix tried to do with the Ultimania Guide, but hey Sephiroths sells in US, so they did it. Hence I am not very enthousiastic about FF VII right now and about Squeenix.

Well it's sort of a guide to everything you need to know about FFVII, however it is filled with assumptions, and often even just plain wrong information. It makes up a bunch of things as well to try and get the FFVII plot to fit in with how they want it to be. Although it's official that doesn't mean it's right.

Something that really bothers me is the fact that Bugehagen's whole talk on the lifestream doesn't seem to mean very much because of all the FFVII spin-offs... Bugehagen said says that things die and then are taken back to the lifestream and then becomes new life... however, according to Advent children, Zack is STILL in the lifestream all these years later... maybe it takes a while for people to pass through the lifestream but Advent children made it seem like death is the last step.

The only things I really consider Canon is the original FFVII game (and maybe dirge of cerberus). Everything else hasn't been totally thought it it seems.

Exactly, Squeenix is just adding all these nonsense all of a sudden, which is rather sad at times and just pure milking most of the times.

The Ultimania Guide was too much though, they all take these assumptions and add things to the story that were never in the game, whilst the Jenova Theory is based ONLY about stuff in the game, nothing else.

ff7 is being transformed into something crazy.
it was just a game but now its like a cult. there is so much information just being added and added on. like star wars or dune.

Soon there will be ff7 conventions.