This can be dialogue, a dungeon, etc.

1. BABEL TOWER. God, maybe I just suck, but I missed the jumps an insane amount of times and then you have to go ALL the way back up and do it again. And PRAY tos some deity that you don't miss this time. or if you don't pray, just swear a lot and hope your anger helps you focus. (I am on my way to do that dungeon later today...please let it be kind to me)

2. The whole story-telling period on disc 2. I never understood why they had to do that. It was way harsh on my eyes (I have an eye condition) and very dull.

3. When you're told to "forgive" Krelian. Okay...so, I did that part with the Wel in the Kislev Sewer and he follows the bell and then later on at the Orphanage you find out that the bell was something that his son gave him and he would come if his son ever rang the bell...and I found out Krelian did that to that man and his kid...and thousands others...but I am supposes to forgive him? Give me a break.

Who followed the bell, who gave who the bell and who was the son? I don't remember that part from the sewers, I only remember when that red monster (Id) killed people.

I didn't like the platforming in Babel tower either. The punishment for missing was a bit too harsh, and the controls werent exactly the greatest in the platforming aspect.

But what annoyed me the most was gaps and inconsistencies in the story. My memories of the game aren't as clear as they were a few years ago, but I still remember a few things that bugged me. The story started out great but as it progressed it became more shallow in some areas and other things were forgotten completely. The Aveh Kislev war seemed almost like a pointless part of the story later on, as if the story would have been just fine without that portion. I would have liked to see the ongoing (or aftermath of the) war to have some significanse later, since it played such a huge part of the story in the beginning.
The story behind Citan's sword was built up to be "something", but it turned out to be nothing. Many main characters were forgotten after their one side quest. And so on.

I also didn't like the narration way of telling the story on Disc 2.
"We went through the forrest. We ran into Ramsas. We started fighting"

The gold award goes to Babel Tower. I don't like that place at all, it's highly frustrating when you miss a jump for the 100th time and have to start all over again, and again... and again. Aaargh!

And speaking of missing jumps; when a battle starts loading a few seconds in advance, the jump button won't respond anymore. But you can still move around during those few seconds, meaning that if you were about to make a jump you'll just run straight into a pit because the character won't jump anymore. >_>

What I didn't like either are those long unskippable cutscenes prior to boss fights. It can get quite annoying losing a boss fight several times and having to watch those long convos all over again, and sadly the text speed is quite slow as well and can't even be changed... pffft.

The first battle with Elly's squad, followed by Elly herself is a good example of that. If you lose to Elly, you'll have to sit through a lot of familiar dialogue when trying again. Or when you fight Ramsus followed by Miang's Opiomorph; lose to the latter and you can sit through all the Ramsus scenes and added battle again. Not being able to skip those convos at times like this can be really annoying.

The game definitely isn't without flaws, and yet it's still my absolute favorite. =P

Babel Tower hands down. I felt the game was pretty average on annoyance until i reached Babel Tower, i must have fallen into that damn wtaer at the bottom a hundred times. Even when i have replayed the game i have had issues with that damn thing.

It actually made me cheat in xenogears the first time i played it but i learned my lesson. As i was constantly falling and had about hours into the tower, i said to hell with it, borrowed a cheat device from a friend and put all my characters at level 99 and limitless fuel, but that was a mistake because at level 99 they didnt had the stats for such level and i couldnt learn any new skills of deathblows because i was stuck at level 99. I had to restart the game, thats the only time i have ever cheated at an RPG. Well i did exploited the unlimited item in FF7 to get the chocobo food.



Oh man, i must have played through that part and beat Ramsus a million times the last time i played the game (earlier this year, every year should start and end with a good xenogears run i say) because after i got to Opiomorph, even though it was like my 5th time in the game i just couldnt beat her. I think i had to try, realistically, 6 times before i beat her. I hate when you get to those types of boss encounters where they are followed by another indeed, if you die at the second you have to start all over again.

The most annoying point for me was knowing that the second disc was chopped up due to FINAL FANTASY. Leaving us to basically play a half assed second disc that was really a huge dissapointment after all the great things that happened on the first.

I can't name any one event, but there were several points where I felt rushed into crap and on rails until right up until the point where you can move around on your own again. That's only to go do the last boss crap though.

I'm sure everyone shares those sentiments about the game reguarding the second disc... But outside of that I really have no complaints, Xenogears is probably my favorite RPG and I pretty much deem it flawless except for something that was pretty much beyond the control of the developers.

Rico's story/Sigmund's story, and the whole arc where Fei + party go to Kislev to get Yggdrasil 4 being taken out. I'm sure Rico and Sigmund's stories would've been finished there, as it was where it started anyway. The war against Kislev ended when Bart changed the government of Aveh around, obviously. Bart's ancestor founded both Kiselv and Aveh, and the war was pretty useless, so they stopped.

Otherwise Fei and Bart couldn't go to Kislev to get Yggdrasil IV, could they? No.

Babel Tower... wasn't as annoying as I remembered it. I played through it, and I managed to get up the tower without falling down once.

What's bothersome: Upgrading Gears all the time takes a huge chunk of money, so you have to spend hours fighting and collecting items so you could upgrade everyone's Gears.

*Spoilers*



A monster named Bloody (I believe) or one of the hardest bosses at the time will come and attack you if you find and ring a bell in the swwer. You have to ring it at a drain it hasn't come out of yet. So you do and then you beat it. Later on, once you find out that him and the other Wels are in actuality people turned into those states by inferior technology and experimentation, you visit the Orphanage and you still have the bell. There is a kid who has an identical bell and says he gave one to his father to use in case he ever got lost. So that Wel was that boy's father and he followed the bell because of some lasting human aspect in his brain about returning to his son. It was Krelian who did that to the man and meeting the son of that man you killed because of Krelian places him in the lowest levels of hate for me.


**END SPOILERS**

Oh yeah I remember that. It was really annoying in that cave outside of a major army battle. (Before Id shows up for the first time)
I fell down a lot of times in that cave due to this. And when I finally made it, I think I lost in the boss fight and had to do it all over again.

And thanks for reminding me, Sadistic Angel. I remember it partially now. I don't remember reading that Krelian was responsible for it though.
But I do remember that he was responsible for the human meat that came out of that factory. I think that was even worse. What did he use to make the canned food? Was it low class sitzens or mutants?

I think his name was Redrum not Bloody, but i could be wrong.

You know, now that i remember, i never actually hated Krelian. Sure, he was pretty much an royal ##### but i kinda felt simpathy towards him after what happened with Sofia. I kinda hated Miang the first time through the game but after that i began to respect her.

Now a dude i really couldnt ##### stand was Hammer, bro my ass.

it was pretty strange for me because neither redrum or opiomorph gave me any problems. I beat both of them on my first try, unless you count the game screwing up and freezing on redrum when I was a turn away from beating him, but I just went and beat him again.

But I would have to say the second part of the Tower of Babel, where they have the moving platforms going up and down and I would miss and fall back to the beginning of the area. Also, the random battles were extremely annoying there.

Also, I found the final dungeon to be very annoying. It wasn't hard in any way, but it just got really boring because everything looked the same and I believe I got lost on that area with multiple stories and it took me forever before I figured out that you could move the bridges.

Ah yes, Redrum was it. Bloody was the duplicate on the Reaper Ship.

Anyway, don't you remember Krelian's Lab on Solaris? It was full of people turning into Wels. So I deduced from that that he was the man responsible for it all. And as for the meat factory, I think it were the dead citizens and people they experimented on.

definitely... you'd think giant mech's would have booster rockets...
i just didn't care for the game, so when i got fed up with horrendous controls, i just quit the game entirely.

The random battles were pretty much my all-time annoying point, especially when it comes to opening chests, opening doors or just interacting with the environment. I mean just when the dialogue box is about to say I found something in the chest, it would suddenly stop and battle again. Also as what Xerno already mentioned about the jumping mechanics when it comes to battles.

Let's see...

Ah yes; seeing the message "Episode V" scroll down the screen during the credits, and realizing that there'd never be an Episode VI.

Spooger is like that guy who at a friend's funeral, while everybody is remembering how much fun he used to have, suddenly comes out and says "Yeah, and now he is dead". He really just makes me wanna cry, damn you spooger, damn you to hell.

Indeed, this made it quite obvious. Though if you want a direct statement, Bishop Stone (or Stein, if you like) already confirms this prior to Krelian's Lab:

Stone: "Yes, Billy, let me tell you something good... Those Reapers that you have been purging are really all people... They were chosen by the 'Ethos' and converted by Krelian! You've been slaughtering people! Ha ha ha..."

Said by the most vile and messed up villain of the game (seriously, the game implies he abused children... as Jesiah said; to hell with him << ).

Ah, that last bit is wrong, Xerno. If you're talking about sexual abuse, anyway. The line you're thinking of is in reference to the heads of the Ethos. Here's the quote.

VERLAINE: Saving orphans and refugees... that may seem like works of mercy. But the little boys and girls kept here were actually used as a means to satisfy the desires of the pontiff and bishops.

Being as Stein/Stone was actually with Solaris and not part of the Ethos, I doubt he was taking part in the implied activity. But who knows.

Yah, that's most likely the quote I was thinking of (don't see anything else in the script that could have been it). But the Ethos was originally just a sub-devision of Solaris, until they started striving for their own goals. Since Stein had the status of Bishop Stone I figured he was included with that general statement. But well... maybe not.

Though Verlaine was working for him, to clear out the "corrupted Ethos". So why was it again that Stein shot him? I thought it was because he was just giving away too much information ("A good-for-nothing chatterbox such as you has no right to live"). Hence I just assumed he had said too much about certain things, like that statement. But if that's the only reference I guess it's too vague to know anything for sure.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he killed him just because he was rattling off information he didn't want said. Then he went into a lengthy talk himself. But in honesty, I don't think he did anything like that. While he is vile, repugnant and a complete arse, I figured that statement was meant merely for actual members of the Ethos. He was merely there to keep an eye on them I believe. Still, you never know. Still, I'd say Krelian is a more despicable man than him. My love died...God must hate me. Now I'll torture and experiment on thousands of people.

How insightful.

And then he's forgiven.
I guess all dogs go to heaven, hm?

Speaking of forgiving Krelian: "The only one who could have forgiven me is (*)."

* I often see people mention he says "God" (if I recall even the script faq lists it like that), but I've turned my sound volume way up just to hear it clearly and I still hear him say "gone". In which case he's most likely referring to Sophia (Elly isn't quite the same; for one I like Sophia more than her to begin with =p ).

Maybe Krelian just mumbles the word God so badly that it sounds like "gone" to me, but storywise I like it better if he does indeed say "gone". Personally I think it fits much better with his tear dropping in the water right after he says it. I guess either way works, but I prefer thinking he meant Sophia.

It can be heards both things really. I have decided on "gone" since Krelian basically sends God to hell and concluded there was no God and he could actually see there really was no god, then the natural assumption is that he meant Sofia.

The Script at Gamefaqs says God though, but i have an old version of the FAQ so they could have changed it by now:


I disagree.

Eh, Sophia and Elly both were morons in my opinion. Elly's little speech to the Elements in the first Relics Dungeon was nice but her later action of walking straight into a trap by Krelian cemented her as an idiot. And Sophia, she helped make Grahf who killed 96% of the world in Days of Destruction as well as made Krelian who would go on to butcher people to their very essence. They call it her "sacrifice" when she kiills herself on the ship. No, no. A sacrifice would be to let your love die and live on yourself witht he agony you let them die. To kill yourself and instill in two individuals such hate, despair and misery is not a sacrifice.

Erm... yes, that was a sacrifice. Just because Lacan and Krelian are both so messed up to go off and ruin the world doesn't mean her sacrifice was a stupid thing to do. She wanted to protect the people she cared about, and she did save the others by crashing into Merkava. She couldn't possibly have expected those two to be all like "And now I'll destroy this world/create God with my own hands~!" If anything, they're more foolish than Sophia will ever be.

It's a stupid thing to let yourself die for someone else. What did you save them for? A lifetime of knowing that THEY killed you. That you died so they could live. What a "sacrifice." You truly did the best thing for them. If Sophia had been smart or truly had a heart, she would let them die and live her life with their deaths. Not vice versa. And as a result of her foolishness, millions were killed. I may sound apathetic here, but that's how it is. It's not even reason. Nor emotionless fact. If you had a heart...and you saw the one you loved was going to die, would you help them survived at the cost of your own life, knowing you were damning them to a life with the guilt of your death? I wouldn't.

But then it'd be your fault, and you'd give yourself the same feelings as they would get.

Besides, she didn't save two men, she saved Roni Fatima, Zephyr, Rene, and lots of Shevite citizens, as well as Aveh and Kislev (if Roni formed them yet, I'm not sure). She didn't know that Lacan would freak out that much. Seriously, do you suspect your friends to have the power to wipe out 96% of humanity, or try to revive an ancient being that you don't even know exists? I sure don't.

Anyway, Krelian saying "The only who can forgive me is God," is the only reason why I would see him even trying to open the path of Sephirot. Otherwise, everything he did was pointless.

Though he could've just killed himself and not caused all of that, but the he would be a tragic and boring hero, and not a tragic and at closer inspection, shallow villain.