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Flame
I was just wondering if there are any inconsistencies between Episodes 1,2 and 3 (apart from voice changes and battle system ect. ect. I'm talking about storyline wise). Also if there are any storylines (maybe completly minor) which didn't come to a conclusion.

I havn't finished XSIII yet so I can't comment massivly but the only one I notcied is in Episode 1 Nephillim stresses the importance of Shion going to Miltia. Well nothing major happens the first time she goes back to miltia compared to the time she goes back in her mind and calls abels ark. However, Nephillim says 'She is waiting for you there'.

I had always assumed that this is true KOS-MOS... but still we don't know the true identity of KOS-MOS (at least at where I am, which is past the miltia section). Do you think they had something else planned? Or could 'she' be referring to T-elos?

Anyway, I open it up...
Xerno
I haven't beaten Episode III yet, but I'm very close to the end. And something does seem to be sort of forgotten. The Beach of Nothingness/Cherenkov's statement to Shion didn't turn out to be much of anything. Unless it's still brought up in the ending somehow, that part of the story seems to have just faded away.

Sure, Shion went to that Beach again in one of her "dreams". But still, in that regard Cherenkov's little speech seems pretty much irrelevant. So if anything wasn't quite addressed properly, I'd say this is definitely one of those things.
Flame
*Disc 1 Spoilers*

Oh yeah, the beach of nothingness... I never quite understood the beach of nothingness, but that COULD (Don't take this as gospel) be referring to the inevitable Coma that Shion should fall into because of the desiese she shares with her mother. However, that may come right at the end of the game... the part we havn't seen yet...

That's the only explanation I can think of at the time...
Denim
Shion's story isn't quite finished as advertised. Highlight if you wish. In the end Shion and Allen, and anyone on the Dummerung go to Lost Jerusalem to find that thing that'll save the universe.

Anyway. The going to Miltia part is explained by Virgil in Episode 1. After you kill Ein Rugel and Dopplewogel and Virgil reverts back to himself, he says "Go to that time, to that place," which is exactly what Shion did in Episode 3. She went back in time AND space, and found out the major plotpoints about Kevin, her mother, Gnosis phenomena etc.


Though what I'd like to know is what the hell killing Cecily and Cath did.
I'd also like to know whether Cherenkov was even given a choice for Testamenthood, as he was stated, numerous times, to have an amazingly strong will. And he was the only one to revert from Personality Reconditioning of the highest levels. And what Wilhelm was. And what's on the thing the highlighted part of my post is about.
Flame
The more I think about it the less I think Episode II mattered... I'm not sure about the two girl realians, I think that was more febronia's wish than any major plot.

In fact what DID happen in Episode II? The original Zohar was found again (yay) but Serigus has it (boo) but we beat him to a pulp (yay) but then Abel's Ark appeared, ate it and then I assume it dissapeared again (boo). I guess it was important to understand the URTV stuff, and Albedo's death at the end was also important but it just feels like they could have fitted a lot more into Episode 2...

I guess it doesn't help that even now I have no idea who is on who's side and what organisations are which or what they're intentions are. I thought I knew but then Episode III confused the hell out of me hahah... I WILL look in the XenoBible one day... just not now... *sigh*
Denim
Well, since Episode 1 and 2 was originally meant to be Episode 1 (just like the DS game) it really felt like half a game. Missing Year would probably fit in as a game too, and would be part of Episode 2. Episode 3 would be something completely different, I guess.

Actually, I just remembered. In Pied Piper, when Voyager was revived as a Testament, he didn't turn into Ein Rugel. Ziggy's flashback meant nothing, or was flashing back to something else, like one of his earlier missions as a cyborg rather than Voyager.
chaos768
The "Return to miltia....she is waiting for you there" comment by Nephilim in Episode 1 is more than likely referring to the events in Episode 2 when they encounter Feb and here sisters and KOS-MOS destroys them. The importance of Episode 2 is tied strongly to Episode 3. You're filled in as to who and what JR, Albedo, and Gaignun are, the Zohar is recovered and is sucked in by Abels Ark, it is confirmed that chaos is connected to Wilhelm and chaos states "I won't hold back anymore." You find out quite a bit about the connection between Sakura and MOMO, not alot of developements with Shion and Ziggy in that episode, but they were there. Episode 2, as poor as some of the stuff was, is indeed a vital part of the series. It would be like a person with no liver if it wasn't there; it simply wouldn't exist.
Valince
Agreed. Epsidoe II has a crapass battle system that I will ALWAYs KNOCK ON, but it sported an exciting back story with kickass Albedo stealing the show. Feb thing was ruined with Shions overreacting but yea.
QUOTE (Xerno @ Sep 9 2006, 09:19 PM) *
I haven't beaten Episode III yet, but I'm very close to the end. And something does seem to be sort of forgotten. The Beach of Nothingness/Cherenkov's statement to Shion didn't turn out to be much of anything. Unless it's still brought up in the ending somehow, that part of the story seems to have just faded away.

Sure, Shion went to that Beach again in one of her "dreams". But still, in that regard Cherenkov's little speech seems pretty much irrelevant. So if anything wasn't quite addressed properly, I'd say this is definitely one of those things.


Andrew Cherenkov is in the database FYI, with some info you probably wanna know. The update file is found on the Durandel. Really, I've seen some characters go through horrible times, and even with Shions tragic youth, no one can touch the fate of this poor man.

Anyhow remember back in EpI when he said that someday she will end up there, and how she is just like him?(Little does Shion know that by listening to him, she was helping him find resolve. Too too bad, he ended up a Gnosis..otherwise it would have been the best way for him to go).

Now remember when Nephilim told Shion not to to reject everything or she will be alone? Cherenkov, though he did not reject the world, the world rejected him and he became isolated, and thus the beach of nothingness. My guess is that the beach of nothingness was not added because of the path the story was going to take.
Demonwing
I have a small theory on why Shion never turned into a Gnosis


Spoilers nonetheless


It is said she's the maiden of Mary Magdalene, who is KOS-MOS. KOS-MOS always watches out for her, almost like a mother. Therefore, she might be the daugher of Mary Magdalene in the past life, which might mean she's chaos' daughter, so she might have inherited the anti-crystalization thing he has. They simply didn't give it to her in game because they didn't want it to be obvious
Armaros
More than anything else, I wanted to know exactly who or what Wilhelm is. The database says he is a *SPOILER* sort ofheretic against god who's lived for like 4000 years or something around that amount but that isn't exactly clarifying things very much about why he's doing what he's doing. Sure, he's *SPOILER* preventing the destruction of the universe by using Zarathustra to bring about the reccurence, but why? That could have been explained, I may not have been paying enough attention. Also, I would have liked to know more about how the relics of god (Zohar, etc.) were created. It's stated time and time again that they were created by people in ancient times, but the how would have really interested me.
Xerno
Oh right, another thing I forgot to mention (Episode 3 spoilers included):

Having both Virgin Mary (referred to in the XSI database under the term Marienkind) and Mary Magdalene in the story. Isn't that just a little contradicting? xP This already lead to confusion when we were still speculating about who True KOS-MOS was ("How can it be Mary Magdalene if there's already a Virgin Mary?"). I guess you could explain it as false religious ideas in the XS universe, but it's still a bit strange that they opted to include both of them.
Grahf
Something I never really understood, even though it isn't all that important to the story, is how Michtam was attacked by gnosis when the gnosis phenomenon didnt start until after his planet was destroyed, can someone maybe clear this up?
kininson
itīs not contradicting at all since virgin mary and mary magdalene were two different persons. the first was the mother of jesus and the second was one of the prostitutes that stayed by jesus side when nobody cred for him, well that would one story some people believe mary magdalene was jesus wife. (also there are other theories about her..)
Denim
It's actually her name being mentioned in the book of John (I think that's the one, the least used one) and her being mentioned in the gospel of so-and-so which isn't in the Christian canon (but it is in the Gnostic) where Jesus and her were seen kissing by the apostles, and when the apostles asked him what he was doing, Jesus told them that his buisness is his alone.

Which is kind of a dick like thing to say, really.

But whatever.

Zoar Incident. Does the database go over that? It's the incident that Cherenkov took part in that Cherenkov said "lead up to the Miltian Conflict". Probably involved Mizrahi.
Spoiler highlight

Also, Wilhelm has been alive for as long as the universe has been times an unknown number as he's activated Zarathustra several times.
Sadistic Angel
To Denim:

1) It does go over the Zoar Incident. I'll look it up and tell you what it says.
2) There is no conclusion on what Wilhelm is. The Devil, the anti-Christ, anything is possible with him.
marushio
My opinions. HUGE SPOILERS!!


QUOTE (Flame @ Sep 9 2006, 10:20 PM) *
I was just wondering if there are any inconsistencies between Episodes 1,2 and 3 (apart from voice changes and battle system ect. ect. I'm talking about storyline wise). Also if there are any storylines (maybe completly minor) which didn't come to a conclusion.

I havn't finished XSIII yet so I can't comment massivly but the only one I notcied is in Episode 1 Nephillim stresses the importance of Shion going to Miltia. Well nothing major happens the first time she goes back to miltia compared to the time she goes back in her mind and calls abels ark. However, Nephillim says 'She is waiting for you there'.

I had always assumed that this is true KOS-MOS... but still we don't know the true identity of KOS-MOS (at least at where I am, which is past the miltia section). Do you think they had something else planned? Or could 'she' be referring to T-elos?

Anyway, I open it up...


1) I believe the Beach of Nothingness is the psychological cage for the conciousness of those who became Gnosis. The Gnosis are human who rejected the World, unable to return to the Colective Subconciousness (inside U.M.N.). I also think that those that survive the Whitening become gnosis for the very same aspect of refusing their destinies (in this case, becoming Pillars of Salt). So, I believe that is "HELL", that is, eternal solitude, that come from one's own fear, weakness and lack of the ability to comunate with others. (The Colective Subconciousness would then be "HEAVEN").
Cherenkov surely knew that Shion would turn int a Gnosis sooner or later.

2) "She" is Febronia. Remember Febronia shows the ilusionary cage that binds her "sister" and then askes Shion to free them.
KOS-MOS awakening is only at Chapter 9 of Episode III.


QUOTE (Demonwing @ Sep 10 2006, 04:56 PM) *
I have a small theory on why Shion never turned into a Gnosis


Spoilers nonetheless


It is said she's the maiden of Mary Magdalene, who is KOS-MOS. KOS-MOS always watches out for her, almost like a mother. Therefore, she might be the daugher of Mary Magdalene in the past life, which might mean she's chaos' daughter, so she might have inherited the anti-crystalization thing he has. They simply didn't give it to her in game because they didn't want it to be obvious

That's kinda of a trip! *sweatdrop*
But it makes some sense though. But I think it is more likely to be related to Shion's condition, her direct mental link with U-DO.

QUOTE (Xerno @ Sep 11 2006, 11:38 AM) *
Oh right, another thing I forgot to mention (Episode 3 spoilers included):

Having both Virgin Mary (referred to in the XSI database under the term Marienkind) and Mary Magdalene in the story. Isn't that just a little contradicting? xP This already lead to confusion when we were still speculating about who True KOS-MOS was ("How can it be Mary Magdalene if there's already a Virgin Mary?"). I guess you could explain it as false religious ideas in the XS universe, but it's still a bit strange that they opted to include both of them.

Marienkiend is how the Original Zohar is refered. Meaning that the Zohar is God itself (The Son of Mary).
And like Kininson-kun, said Mary Magdalaine was Christ's parthner (T-elos say that as well). Originaly there were several Evangelions, but the Church chose the 4 that suited it the best, chasing and destroying the others.
The so called Gnostic Evangelions (some are found in the "Dead Sea Scriptures") stated that Jesus was much more human (loving Mary Magdalain, for example). Also the word Gnosis means self-knlowedge. The Church would not allow that texts that said there was no need for leaders (priests) to reach God undermein it's power.

Another Gnostic Evangelion "recently" discovered is the EVANGELION OF JUDDAH.

Keep in mind that NOT ONE EVANGELION were not written by the Aposthles. Actually, they were written after their deaths!


Other stuff:

I believe Wilhelm is LUCIFER. Casted away from the Relm of God, he probably rely on the Eternal Recurance to escape the Destiny of this Relm: "dissipation and vanishing". To beome a Testment is kinda of a Pact with the Devil! XD

About chaos, I typed Yeshua on Wikipidia and this is what came up:
"Yeshua, spelled יֵשׁ֣וּעַ in Hebrew, is believed by some scholars and religious groups to be the Hebrew or Aramaic name for Jesus. It is extensively used by Messianic Jews and Hebrew Christians, as well as others, who wish to use what some believe to be the original Hebraic pronunciation of Jesus' name. This pronunciation and spelling, as with many religious and scholarly issues, are not without its detractors."

It also showed a relation with the phrase "yemach shemo vezichro", meaning "May his name and memory be obliterated"

Anyway, aparantly, chaos is Jesus. If that's so, his relationship to KOSMOS -- or rather Mary Magdalain -- makes perfect sense.

As a cultural note, on the EVANGELION OF JUDDAH, there's is a passage that says that Jesus often behaved as child. But the translator sayd that that same passage can also mean that he sometimes LOOKED/TRANSFORMED into a child! A relation of chaos' eternal life, maybe...



My own doubts (or rather pointing finger at plot holes):
Episode I
1)After facing Marguilus, Ziggy sees a shadow behind him. When Cherenkov turns into a Gnosis, he says "it's the same as that time".

2) The blue Testment turns into a Gnosis on Episode I, but on Episode III, there's something (a Gnosis?) folowing his command and he doesn't transform.

3) The database says that Merkabah appears several times throughout the course of the story, but it was only 2.

4) When KOS-MOS is about to KAMIKAZEly shield the Elsa, she says to chaos "relinquish your pain onto me"... What did that mean?

Episode II:
1) KOS-MOS frame is severely changed. The X-Buster becomes pretty weaker and that enormeous thing doesn't come out of her back anymore. How did the 2nd R&D Division change all that.

2) When Jin's fightin Marguilus he starts to bleed, he says to chaos "it's from earlier". From earlier what?? I don't think it's related to him recueng little Shion.


Episode III
1) Only Mary and Shelley know the code to release the Zohar Emulators, but Junior showed the Emulators personally to you.
Grahf
Another thing thats doesnt make sense, which I mentioned before, but no one answered, is that it doesnt make sense that Kevin's home planet (Abraxas?) is overrun with gnosis, because gnosis were not introduced to the world until after he became Mizrahi's assistant and the miltian conflict took place.
Flame
Ocelot... I think That's answered in the lost two years... there was that guy from earth who got stuck in U-DO (Grimore or something like that) and he could control the Gnosis and make them attack specified points... I guess it could have been him who done it before the miltian conflict... With the original Zohar residing on that planet for so long and the 'people of the zohar' living there it would make sense for him to Attack there... but I never read the missing two years properly so I'm quite clueless... but if you want the answer that is probably the place to look.
marushio
Acording to the Episode III Database:
There were reports of the Gnosis Phenomenon since the very begining of the T.C. age. (By the way what does T.C. stands for?)
But they were very rare and sporadical. Only after the Miltian Conflict the Gnosis leaped to the frontline of history.

Also, Zohar related experiments took place on Abraxas. And Kevin's mother's pendant is also the Key to startup Zarathustra. Is likely that they were conducting some experiment and things got out of contol (like usual), summoning the gnosis to Abraxas, but whatever that was, was not as important as the miltian Conflict, at least not for the Gnosis...
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