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SonicX_Zero
QUOTE (Athrun @ Mar 31 2007, 06:19 AM) *
Has anyone beaten Proud mode for KH 2?

Proud mode isn't that difficult once you get the hang of the game, a few can bosses get you off guard but the normal heartless wont. As you already mentioned its much easier to watch the secret ending in Proud than in normal, so you could pretty much guess what majority of the players back then chose as their difficulty.
Grahf
I would play it on Proud mode myself, because I recently replayed the regular game (this past week) on normal because I remember playing it on normal the first time and finding a few parts in the game to be tough (especially the fight with Xaldin), but when I played it, it was far too easy and if I wasn't as far into the game as I was, I would have started over and played on proud mode. My point is is that normal mode is far to easy, go for proud mode.
Seluna
ohmy.gif Hiku, what a coincidence! I managed to weedle a copy of KH2:FM from my boyfriend just a few days ago! <3

Because I (very) belatedly realized that the event videos will be in English and I don't like the English dubbing that much, I decided to rush through my KH2 first to watch all the vids in Jap and leave all the complete this and that to FM. :3 I probably will go for Proud Mode in FM then, because completing the journal is going to be so hard. T-T
Edgeworth
I beat it in Normal Mode, to satisfy the completionist in me. It took a LONG. TIME. I HATE POSTERS.

...

Anyway. Hiku, Seluna, I'm so jealous of you guys right now that I could just crawl in a hole and die. X D Oh, and I wasn't "twitching like an idiot" like you were while watching the Axel battle, Seluna, but I was staring at the screen like an open-mouthed, autistic zombie. Heck, maybe I WAS twitching. There was no one to see and I wasn't very aware of myself at the time, so I could have been. X D

Ahhh!! Now I can go to my moronically early math class a semi-happy KH fan... oh, the pain.
Athrun
Well Seluna, according to what Sauce posted before, regarding Theater mode you can watch the cutscenes in either English or Japanese. But I suspect that maybe that was missinterprited by someone since the COM cutscenes are in Japanese. But it would be great if you could view all the KH cutscenes in Japanese as well. =p

Hmmm, I guess I'll go for Proud Mode then. But I think I'll start with COM, as tempting as it is to play KH 2 FM first.
By the way, I like how they listed "Defeat all 13 Organization members" as a requierment, like it's a chore.
Edgeworth
Proud Mode is pretty hard, though. I'm the kind of player that just levels up like mad and beats the crap out of anything that comes within Keyblade reach, but in Proud Mode, you'll really have to rely on the Reaction Commands. I was getting my butt kicked by regular Dusks without it, though the difficulty was lessened considerably when I actually got serious and stopped mashing X. I got to the Twilight Thorn and got OWNED. I really should finish Proud Mode, but I have too many other, unbeaten games to play. : \

Ah, I was really hoping for a Japanese option with KH2. Maybe they'll have it if EGM is right and it's coming out this fall. That would be nice.
Seluna
OHH... I forgot all about Theatre Mode having Japanese voice. ^^;; I'm so silly. Hm, even if that's the case, since I'll be playing FM on Proud, I'll still go ahead and finish KH2 first. Especially since getting Theatre Mode is a task upon itself. But I'll seriously rush through KH2 then, and since I already watched the secret ending (it's floating all over the internet, man), I don't really need to complete anything. Yay.
LagunaWannabe
Yeah that's the only reason why I wanted Final Mix to come out. I don't care about the game, I care about the new screens and endings that give hints about the next game. Because from the SOUNDS of it.. Nomura says he'll be creating a whole new series, with a new name, new characters, etc.

and with ANY LUCK, that means

NO DISNEY!! A REAL RPG! WOOHOOO!!
Athrun
Actually I changed my mind. I'm not going to play Proud mode.
While it's easier to unlock the special ending movie (which I've already seen anyway) I won't be able to enjoy the battle against the knight. It's way too hard. Look at this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjboh2q2Q10&eurl=

This guy literally lasts only 3 seconds against him.
SonicX_Zero
QUOTE (LagunaWannabe @ Apr 3 2007, 07:04 PM) *
NO DISNEY!! A REAL RPG! WOOHOOO!!

What? So having Disney along made it a fake RPG? News to me. =)
LagunaWannabe
"It's OWN RPG"******* lolol

yeah screw Disney. For real. I like the idea of mixing things, but Disney RAPED the games with all the worlds, playable characters, characters you meet, tameness of the game, and cornyness at more times than appreciated lol
Seluna
QUOTE
Actually I changed my mind. I'm not going to play Proud mode.
While it's easier to unlock the special ending movie (which I've already seen anyway) I won't be able to enjoy the battle against the knight. It's way too hard. Look at this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjboh2q2Q10&eurl=

This guy literally lasts only 3 seconds against him.

ohmy.gif He died super fast. He's playing it on Proud or Normal? Seriously, this makes me think twice as well. I'm already not very good at action RPG games (needing to heal when fighting Heartless in Hollow Bastion comes to mind), and I already have doubts about being about survive against Sephiroth when I can fight the dude. Hmm... I need to think really hard for this.
Athrun
I would like to think that he is playing Proud mode (wishful thinking) but it could be Normal mode.
Nomura (although I don't know if he is much of a gamer) said that he hasn't found a way to beat that Knight himself.
I think I'll be able to enjoy that battle more on Normal mode, and perhaps some other boss battles as well. So I think that outweighs being able to see the special ending, so I'll go for Normal mode.
Seluna
I think I'll leave making the decision when I start FM then. Burn the bridge as I reach it. It's going to give me a headache agonizing about it this early.

On the issue, it's preferable to finish CoM first, right? Since FM requires its save file to unlock certain things. I'm actually wondering how that is going to work. Will it be a little like Suikoden's loading at the very beginning of the game or when they get to it?
Edgeworth
QUOTE (Athrun @ Apr 3 2007, 03:07 AM) *
Actually I changed my mind. I'm not going to play Proud mode.
While it's easier to unlock the special ending movie (which I've already seen anyway) I won't be able to enjoy the battle against the knight. It's way too hard. Look at this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjboh2q2Q10&eurl=

This guy literally lasts only 3 seconds against him.


H-Holy... O_o

Yeah. Normal Mode for me. I love this game enough to beat it all over again in Proud Mode once I've finished Normal, anyway. Gahhhh!! *dies from lack of KH2:FM*

Why the heck would he create a boss even he couldn't beat, anyway? That's evil! Well, at least he has faith in the fans, I suppose... just because he created it doesn't mean he's the best at it. Like the guy who made Katamari Damacy... he never played a video game in his whole life.
Zanian
QUOTE (Athrun @ Apr 3 2007, 10:13 PM) *
I would like to think that he is playing Proud mode (wishful thinking) but it could be Normal mode.
Nomura (although I don't know if he is much of a gamer) said that he hasn't found a way to beat that Knight himself.
I think I'll be able to enjoy that battle more on Normal mode, and perhaps some other boss battles as well. So I think that outweighs being able to see the special ending, so I'll go for Normal mode.

It was indeed Proud-Mode, he said so himself. But I still don't think it will be impossible. Everything gets easier with a little practise ^^

Take Sephiroth from KH1 for instance, last time I defeated him, I was around lvl 40. And KH2 (I bought the jap version of the game the minute it was released, hehe (couldnt wait)), the last boss get's pretty easy after a while.
And so will this Knight from KH2:FM.

Btw, in case you guys haven't seen the secret ending yet, here it is: [SPOILERS] Clicky[/SPOILERS]
Flame
I never ended up beating sephiroth from KH1 with Ultima weapon and level 99 Sora... That Unknown Soldier destroyed Sora in two hits on Proud mode... I'm steering clear of Proud mode for now.

I'm actually looking forward to KH2:FM being released now... it is still getting released (at least in America) right? If not I guess it's time to buy the normal version of KH2... I'm not a huge KH fan but I probably should at least give it a try.
SonicX_Zero
Youtube search function does wonders. =)

Enigmatic Knight down to 1HP vid =)
Sauce
Article found at IGN.

QUOTE
April 2, 2007 - With Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix + Re: Chain of Memories at last out in Japan, Tetsuya Nomura and crew can now devote all their energy to their next project. And that appears to be another Kingdom Hearts game, or at least another tie-up with Disney. But is it Kingdom Hearts III?

Speaking with Japan's Gemaga and Dengeki PlayStation publications, Nomura gave a few hints on the new project, which he's previously hinted would see formal announcement later this year.

Gemaga asked if the characters who appear in the new CG "secret movie" that has been added to Final Mix are from the new title. "They are people who have some relation to the new series," said the producer. "However the next title won't just be Kingdom Hearts III. If it were III, we wouldn't call it a new series."

Asked if Sora and Riku would make an appearance in the new game, he said with a laugh, "I can't say." He also hinted that the new game would have something to do with Xehanort, the main villain of the Kingdom Hearts series.

He was just as direct when Dengeki PlayStation asked for some details on the new title. "First, it's not Kingdom Hearts III. Of course, because we're calling it a 'new' series, it won't be KHIII. Also, it's a series, so it probably won't be just one title."

Nomura once again promised an announcement of the new game, whatever it may be, some time this year. In the meanwhile, he suggested that players attempt to unlock the Final Mix secret movie and start imagining.
Edgeworth
Nomura... that fiend! He knows exactly how to string us along! X D Man... I want KH2:FM to come out in English sooooo baaaaad... I haven't wanted anything this badly since the first time I saw Axel in a Youtube video in Japanese. D :
Seluna
Lol.... I do hope they will release the English version, because then my boyfriend will be able to enjoy the game too. ^^

Not KHIII eh? Well, I honestly can't imagine playing another game traveling those disney worlds a third (or second) time to tackle the stupid Heartless/Nobodies problem yet again. It'll be so redundant. I mean, how many keyholes can a stupid world have that needs sealing/unlocking/whatever so many times?

I think we may have to rename this forum when the new game comes out, lol. 'Kingdom Hearts and its spin-off Series Forum'
Flame
Still tied in with Disney? The only reason I could see to have a spin-off series would be because he wanted to get rid of the Disney aspect. Of course, I'm sure Disney are making a pretty penny from this as well as raising their profile so I'm sure Disney will grab hold of Square for as long as it can.

Still... it's a good move on Square's part IMO... as Selly said, another game of traveling Disney worlds the same as KH1 and KH2 will become very stale indeed. Nomura certainly does seem to have a plan in mind though... Taking a bold move like this will pay off in the end I think.

I assume that KH:FM hasn't actually been properly confirmed then? Damnit >.< *holds tight*
LagunaWannabe
Yeah once the game dumps Disney then it'll be all set. Like, if Disney had as much influence as FF had, then the game wouldn't have been that bad.. But most of the villains, the worlds, the playable characters, and the battle members are Disney ppl, and like, FF Characters make cameo appearanced haha. It wasn't balanced at all.

But the plotline itself is AWESOME without Disney, about light, darkness, hearts, friendship, heartless, nobodies, etc. It's all great, and minus the Disney characters, ALL the other characters were amazing: Riku, Axel, Marluxia, Xenmas, Kairi, Leon, Sephiroth, Cloud, Xaldin, (All the Org 13 members), i mean all the characters were SUPERB.
Flame
I've got no problem with the Disney characters. That side of things didn't bother me (as I believe I said in the other topic) but I DO think they are preventing Kingdom Hearts from it's full potential. Square have stumbled across a really interesting storyline (though I haven't played KH2 so I don't know the full story... from what I've heard though it's all good) but because they have to fit in so much Disney things are getting cut.

He has already said that the next Kingdom Hearts (or this spin-off series) will still be influenced by Disney... I wonder how much though...
LagunaWannabe
QUOTE
though I haven't played KH2 so I don't know the full story


You haven't played Kingdom Hearts 2 yet, so you haven't seen how much Disney there is in it yet lol. Well, to let you know, there's TONS, and some parts are SO CORNY. And the reason why Disney hinders the game, is because in every world you basically replay the movie, except with some heartless twist thrown in. THeres nothing exciing about playing the worlds. That's why I'm not getting Final Mix, I'll just see the new scenes and the ending movies if I really want to know what the secrets are, because the Disney Worlds certainly don't hold them.

And the storyline in Kingdom Hearts 2 DESTROYS the KH1 storyline it's that good. KH2 eclipses KH1 in every sense of a game.
Edgeworth
QUOTE (LagunaWannabe @ Apr 4 2007, 01:58 PM) *
And the storyline in Kingdom Hearts 2 DESTROYS the KH1 storyline it's that good. KH2 eclipses KH1 in every sense of a game.

YES. Yes it does.

Me, I don't mind the Disney aspect. I enjoyed playing the Disney levels, even if they were just rehashes of the movies, because for me, it was like revisiting said movies, only with Sora and company. I'm always up for a Disney movie. ^_^ Of course I thought about how amazing a Disney-less Kingdom Hearts would be like over the course of the game, though. I think it would be AWESOME.
LagunaWannabe
Oh yeah I have nothing against Disney Movies (Lion King, Hercules, Mulan, Aladdin, Tarzan are all some of my favorite movies).

But if they WEREN'T there, and there was something original to Kingdom Hearts, it would make the game SOOO much better. Because then instead of stealing ideas from the movies, there'd be like, more new chracters, more new interesting twists and events, etc etc
Alazuli
I don't see how Kingdom Hearts can be Kingdom Hearts without the Disney element. o.o;
Personally, that's part of the reason I decided to try out the series when the first game came out. It was because of that Disney element that got me to go: "Oh hey! That's something different!"

Granted the worlds aren't the BEST thing ever. It wouldn't really be Kingdom Hearts without them, you know?
Sauce
QUOTE (Flame @ Apr 4 2007, 07:08 AM) *
I assume that KH:FM hasn't actually been properly confirmed then? Damnit >.< *holds tight*


KH:FM was a Japanese release only in 2002. Yes, KH2:FM+ hasn't been officially confirmed by Square Enix that it will be released in America/other places. According to Electronic Gaming Monthly, it will be released in America around fall. It is all rumors for now.
LagunaWannabe
QUOTE (Alazuli @ Apr 4 2007, 05:16 PM) *
I don't see how Kingdom Hearts can be Kingdom Hearts without the Disney element. o.o;
Personally, that's part of the reason I decided to try out the series when the first game came out. It was because of that Disney element that got me to go: "Oh hey! That's something different!"

Granted the worlds aren't the BEST thing ever. It wouldn't really be Kingdom Hearts without them, you know?



No the Disney was nice, but SO MUCH of the game was Disney. That's what upset me. It wasn't even proportional. EVERY world except for like, Traverse Town/WTNW/and Destiny Islands is some kind of Disney World. Your compainions (Donald and Goofy) are Disney characters. Your playable fighters, all Disney characters, and the fact it was Disney purposely made the game a little more tame and corny than it had to be.

There are no Final Fantasy worlds, the FF characters only make cameo appearances, and most of them aren't even themselves (I.E. Leon isn't even Squall, Wakka Tidus and Selphie Seifer Vivi Fuu and Rai aren't even themselves, they're changed). THey've been altered. Disney characters WEREN'T altered. It was just a little too much for my liking.

And like I've said before, the fact that you repeat the movies in the game. I just didn't really like that. It was nice to get nostalgic sometimes, but when I'm playing thru the Mulan world, I already know what's gonna happen basically ,and the same with Aladdin, and Halloween Town, etc etc. It wasn't like, new at all.

The fact that Disney was in it was also a main reason why I bought the game, or at least got hyped up for it, but it made the game WAY too corny at times (Like 100 Acre Wood, Donaldn Goofy and Sora holding hands playing Ring around the rosi, etc etc).


But there's a perfectly good love story they never elaborated on, a great plot between Axel and Roxas that was way too brief, an UNBELIEVABLE past for Riku that was somewhat hindered by the abundant happiness of Donald and Goofy, and a BADASS Organization XIII that was hindered by some of the cornier Disney things.
Alazuli
QUOTE (LagunaWannabe @ Apr 4 2007, 07:12 PM) *
There are no Final Fantasy worlds, the FF characters only make cameo appearances, and most of them aren't even themselves (I.E. Leon isn't even Squall, Wakka Tidus and Selphie Seifer Vivi Fuu and Rai aren't even themselves, they're changed). THey've been altered. Disney characters WEREN'T altered. It was just a little too much for my liking.

And like I've said before, the fact that you repeat the movies in the game. I just didn't really like that. It was nice to get nostalgic sometimes, but when I'm playing thru the Mulan world, I already know what's gonna happen basically ,and the same with Aladdin, and Halloween Town, etc etc. It wasn't like, new at all.


There are not supposed to be Final Fantasy worlds. The Final Fantasy characters only show up as visitors to the worlds, as well as not supposed to be the same exact characters from their respective games. They're just there to add an extra element to the game.

I don't see a problem with playing through the movies, though. Yeah, sure, they're shoddy remakes of the story plots, but what more can you do with them? I'm pretty sure Disney did not want their characters thrown into different situations more than they already have to with meeting Sora, Donald, Goofy, and the Organization.

Same goes for why can't the rest of the Disney party members (aside from Donald and Goofy) stay as permenant party members throughout the rest of the game like a Final Fantasy. It would possibly make it too complicated to deal with how some of those characters could cope. I'm pretty sure a lot of that would be about Disney, though.

I dunno, that's my two cents. Personally, I saw that Disney took a huge backseat to Kingdom Hearts 2. More like, they didn't recieve nearly as much attention as they did in KH1.
LagunaWannabe
QUOTE
They're just there to add an extra element to the game.


Yeah (this quote refers to FF characters), they're there to add an extra element to the game, but my point with that, was that Disney was the only main set of characters and worlds. It was to compliment my argument that Disney had OVERWHELEMING influence in the game. THat there aren't any Kingdom Hearts worlds of their own (except for 2 maybe 3), and there are no Final Fantasy worlds.

QUOTE
I don't see a problem with playing through the movies, though. Yeah, sure, they're shoddy remakes of the story plots, but what more can you do with them? I'm pretty sure Disney did not want their characters thrown into different situations more than they already have to with meeting Sora, Donald, Goofy, and the Organization.


And just because we can't think of other way to implement Disney into the game, doesn't mean that making us play through their worlds again is a good idea. If we can take Final fantasy characters out of context, why couldn't we do the same with Disney?


and I'm glad Disney took a little backseat, this is its own game. It's Kingdom Hearts. IMO, if this game was perfect, Disney wouldh ave as much influence as Final Fantasy did. Because the amount of FF was perfect, but its unbalanaced because of the amount Disney got. Like, the FF characters make cameo apperances, have some extra battles, cool scenes, but they're there as extra. I had wished Disney did the same. Because my perfect version of Kingdom Hearts has its OWN WORLDS it own complete set of characters, unrelated to any Disney movies. Yet there are times when Disney/FF come in and have a couple of scenes together.

Our arguments stem from different expectations of the game. You bought the game expecting it to be a heavy Disney influenced game. I bought it as its own RPG, expecting a little blend of everything.
Alazuli
QUOTE
That there aren't any Kingdom Hearts worlds of their own (except for 2 maybe 3), and there are no Final Fantasy worlds.


Aren't Destiny Islands, Hallow Bastion/Radiant Garden, Twilight Town, Traverse Town, End of the World, and The World that Never Was Kingdom Hearts-exclusive worlds? o.o

QUOTE
And just because we can't think of other way to implement Disney into the game, doesn't mean that making us play through their worlds again is a good idea. If we can take Final fantasy characters out of context, why couldn't we do the same with Disney?


I think it may be a tad different considering that it seems like Square-Enix seems to work on these games solely on their own and have the luxury to take their own characters and twist them to their own needs. I just have doubts that Disney would even allow that, anyway, to happen to their characters.

And going on worlds, I honestly can't think of another scenario these characters can be thrown into, to be honest. It would be pretty hard to figure out some sort situation without totally changing the character further.

Though, I will throw out that I think Donald, Goofy, and Mickey (also Pete and Malificent) did very well in the darker setting of KH2's story.

It's also probably just the Disney fangirl in me in where my arguments come from. XD Sorry if I'm coming out in any sort of offensive way or anything. ^^;
LagunaWannabe
QUOTE
Aren't Destiny Islands, Hallow Bastion/Radiant Garden, Twilight Town, Traverse Town, End of the World, and The World that Never Was Kingdom Hearts-exclusive worlds? o.o


Yes, and those worlds are the combined number from both KH 1 and 2.

Now let's look at the combined list of other worlds combined between KH 1 and 2:

Wonderland
Olympus Coliseum (In both games)
Deep Jungle
100 Acre Wood (In both games)
Agrabah (In both games)
Monstro
Atlantica (In both games)
Neverland
Halloween Town (In both games)
Land of Dragons
Beast's Castle
Disney Castle
Timeless River
Port Royal
The Pride Lands
Space Paranoids




lol, as you can visually see, the amount of worlds and time spent at each is QUITE lopsided lol.

QUOTE
And going on worlds, I honestly can't think of another scenario these characters can be thrown into, to be honest. It would be pretty hard to figure out some sort situation without totally changing the character further.


And my driving point isn't that all Disney should be eradicated, but that it should be more balanced. And when I mean balanced, I mean that there are still a good amount of Disney worlds, so we'd still see many of the Disney characters.

QUOTE
Though, I will throw out that I think Donald, Goofy, and Mickey (also Pete and Malificent) did very well in the darker setting of KH2's story.


And I agree with you on this point, but it's Donald and Goofy and their heavy influence in the game that prevents Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 from being my absolute favorite series, because the plot twists, depth, darkness, adventure, and underlying themese of friendship, heart, and overcoming odds, are unbelievable traits that it already has. It's characters (Riku, Sora, Kairi, Axel, Roxas, Namine, Xemnas, to name a few), Also have enough history, depth, mystique, and potential to blow the next installment out of the water (Albeit they won't be in the game), but the Disney influence hinders the originality of them and the extent to which we can see their stories and background.



phew.
QUOTE
XD Sorry if I'm coming out in any sort of offensive way or anything. ^^;


lol no offense taken, great arguments biggrin.gif, i hope im not rubbing off as the same either, because my argument is most likely stemming from my attraction to games with Good vs Evil themese (FF7 Advent Children and Crisis Core being great examples, because they're very dark, characters are all connected with some kind of intricate past, and there's still room and light for Good and Love to overcome everything (Which it does, and Kingdom Hearts does the same, which is why I like it so much already.)
Sauce
Anyways, some renders showing the two new keyblades in Final Mix+. As well as some renders of Sora in Limit Form and The Enigmatic Soldier with his keyblade. Roxas's keyblade is just something to adore.







Edgeworth
Ah, Black Mushrooms (fungus?)!! That's so awesome! X D I love how the "blade" part at the tip is a little mushroom reaching out. ^___^

The second one is just damn cool.

Heh heh... they look kind of strange, all stiff like that.
Alazuli
QUOTE
Yes, and those worlds are the combined number from both KH 1 and 2.

Now let's look at the combined list of other worlds combined between KH 1 and 2:

Wonderland
Olympus Coliseum (In both games)
Deep Jungle
100 Acre Wood (In both games)
Agrabah (In both games)
Monstro
Atlantica (In both games)
Neverland
Halloween Town (In both games)
Land of Dragons
Beast's Castle
Disney Castle
Timeless River
Port Royal
The Pride Lands
Space Paranoids


Lol! I'd shove Space Paranoids out of that list, I don't think Tron is Disney, proper. Px
You have to admit, they love to reuse, since a lot of those were also in Chain of Memories, too. Good reason, of course, but it still doesn't get rid of that fact.

QUOTE
And my driving point isn't that all Disney should be eradicated, but that it should be more balanced. And when I mean balanced, I mean that there are still a good amount of Disney worlds, so we'd still see many of the Disney characters.


Actually, I think with KH2, it was a bit more balanced. Granted, there are still quite a few Disney worlds, but their purpose wasn't as grand as they were in KH1. More like, you still had the Princesses of Heart and the overrunning of Heartless in KH1, but what do you really have in KH2? The random Organization member causing trouble and opening the next path is about it.

It still gives off the vibe that Square-Enix really didn't put as much effort in them as before, so I guess you could write it off as a bit more balanced out.

QUOTE
And I agree with you on this point, but it's Donald and Goofy and their heavy influence in the game that prevents Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 from being my absolute favorite series, because the plot twists, depth, darkness, adventure, and underlying themese of friendship, heart, and overcoming odds, are unbelievable traits that it already has. It's characters (Riku, Sora, Kairi, Axel, Roxas, Namine, Xemnas, to name a few), Also have enough history, depth, mystique, and potential to blow the next installment out of the water (Albeit they won't be in the game), but the Disney influence hinders the originality of them and the extent to which we can see their stories and background.


Well, there are different portrayals of friendship in KH. Not only does Sora, Riku, and Kairi's relationship (more Sora and Riku than Kairi since they actually had more obstacles to overcome.) illustrate that theme, but the Sora, Donald, and Goofy trinity make up a huge part of it, too. What with after Riku in Hallow Bastion taking the Keyblade; if it weren't for Donald and Goofy, Sora may've not have got back the Keyblade. Riku was really all too lost at that point to make up any of that and it wasn't until well after that part when Riku was practically at a place where he couldn't be reached (Ansem) that Sora showed his faith in him.

But that wouldn't have happened if Donald and Goofy stood by Sora, I'm sure.

I don't think the Disney influence hinders originality at all, really. I think it more enhances it since it's pretty impressive that Square-Enix is able to incorporate that aspect into what Kingdom Hearts is becoming. I mean, when you think about it, Disney never really gave off a dark and dreary feel so when you see these characters placed into some of these events and almost seem like they belong (almost since they do sometimes bring a bit of a light-hearted side, like during the Heartless War), you don't really write them off as childish as they originally seemed. Possibly, I'd begin taking some of these characters much more seriously than before.

QUOTE
lol no offense taken, great arguments biggrin.gif, i hope im not rubbing off as the same either, because my argument is most likely stemming from my attraction to games with Good vs Evil themese (FF7 Advent Children and Crisis Core being great examples, because they're very dark, characters are all connected with some kind of intricate past, and there's still room and light for Good and Love to overcome everything (Which it does, and Kingdom Hearts does the same, which is why I like it so much already.)


Oh, good good. XD Just making sure, ya know?

Wow, just saw those new renders and the first thing I thought of when I saw Sora and the Knight was "Duuuude, someone crucified Sora!?" x.x; I need to really stop and look, that really freaked me out for a second.

I love that new Drive form, really. In all honesty, I liked the colours of Sora's first costume better than his new one, they seem to fit him a lot better. Or maybe just used to seeing him in his cute little red jumpsuit. XD Either or.

The second keyblade is pretty rad, too. Kind of shocking to see attractive keyblades in KH2! Hahaha, you have to admit that most of the Kingdom Hearts 2 keyblades are not very easy on the eyes.

First one is pretty cute now that I really look at it, lots of mushrooms...
LagunaWannabe
QUOTE
Well, there are different portrayals of friendship in KH. Not only does Sora, Riku, and Kairi's relationship (more Sora and Riku than Kairi since they actually had more obstacles to overcome.) illustrate that theme, but the Sora, Donald, and Goofy trinity make up a huge part of it, too. What with after Riku in Hallow Bastion taking the Keyblade; if it weren't for Donald and Goofy, Sora may've not have got back the Keyblade. Riku was really all too lost at that point to make up any of that and it wasn't until well after that part when Riku was practically at a place where he couldn't be reached (Ansem) that Sora showed his faith in him.

But that wouldn't have happened if Donald and Goofy stood by Sora, I'm sure.


Haha I agree completely that in the story they were vital to the plot, and they also added to the theme of friendship, but it was who they were that takes away from the game IMO. It wasn't that they didn't contribute to the plot, it's that it's Donald and Goofy. Whenever I think of the two of them now I want to punch the closest person in the face. I'm not sure if I can really explain my point. It's just that I feel like they're out of place in the game. Mickey wasn't at all, I loved Mickey in the game, because he was serious, he had great quotes, etc. But Donald and Goofy were so silly at times, and they usually were idiots lol. I just felt like if they had been taken out of the game, or given a MUCH lesser role, and that if Square gave Sora OTHER friends, then the storyline would be BETTER, not that it already isn't.
Alazuli
QUOTE (LagunaWannabe @ Apr 7 2007, 07:15 AM) *
Haha I agree completely that in the story they were vital to the plot, and they also added to the theme of friendship, but it was who they were that takes away from the game IMO. It wasn't that they didn't contribute to the plot, it's that it's Donald and Goofy. Whenever I think of the two of them now I want to punch the closest person in the face. I'm not sure if I can really explain my point. It's just that I feel like they're out of place in the game. Mickey wasn't at all, I loved Mickey in the game, because he was serious, he had great quotes, etc. But Donald and Goofy were so silly at times, and they usually were idiots lol. I just felt like if they had been taken out of the game, or given a MUCH lesser role, and that if Square gave Sora OTHER friends, then the storyline would be BETTER, not that it already isn't.


Oh oh, I see what you're getting at. XD
Yeah, I do agree that they could've chosen two more bearable characters since, to be quite frank, Donald and Goofy are pretty loud and obnoxious at times. It's probably the voices...

But it could be that any Disney character (my money would always be on a member of the Mickey Mouse crew) they choose could become pretty annoying if they were being put up with for 30+ hours. Square-Enix just chose the two that are just the most grating when it comes to voices and mannerisms, is that what you mean?
Grahf
I agree that Donald and Goofy can get rather annoying at times, and that's actually my major complaint with the game. In any given situation, it'll be some serious thing, and Donald will just blurt out in his annoying voice (I really can't stand Donald's voice) something like "Oh boy!" or "yeah, and don't mess with us" or something along the lines of him being a character that can be taken seriously. If they had cut down on the amount of lines Donald and Goofy had (like getting rid of 3/4 of the times Donald and Goofy say "Oh boy!" or "Gawrsh") they would have been pretty bearable, but I just feel like Donald and Goofy are just there to ruin the mood or moment that they are participating in.
Alazuli
Mickey wouldn't hold back in spewing a few 'Oh Boy's either, I'm sure. XD
I think that if they held back on those signature phrases/words, they may've been a little more bearable? Is that what you mean? =o
Grahf
yeah, and also hold back on saying stuff that ruins the mood or seriousness of the moment, then I wouldn't mind Donald and Goofy being there.
Alazuli
And don't laugh!!! XD
I agree with you, there were some moments where either Donald or Goofy had said something at the wrong moment where you kind of stare at the screen and go "Okay, ruined the moment right there..."
LagunaWannabe
QUOTE
But it could be that any Disney character (my money would always be on a member of the Mickey Mouse crew) they choose could become pretty annoying if they were being put up with for 30+ hours. Square-Enix just chose the two that are just the most grating when it comes to voices and mannerisms, is that what you mean?


Exactly. Their mannerisms destroyed it. And their phrases and everything. "Oh boy", "Gawrsh", and "don't mess wiht us" totally killed the game. Like, the characters all fit together so well, except Donald and Goofy. Like, even MICKEY fit in so well. How he was best friends with SPOILERSSSSSSSS

diz and ansem

/spoilers, but Mickey had great quotes, had great points, and wasn't too corny. But Donald and goofy just stuck out like a sore thumb. How they'd all jump around and play ring around hte rosy when they were happy and etc. It just didn't fit, and since they were MAIN characters, it totally killed it.
Athrun
QUOTE (LagunaWannabe @ Apr 7 2007, 04:15 PM) *
Haha I agree completely that in the story they were vital to the plot, and they also added to the theme of friendship, but it was who they were that takes away from the game IMO. It wasn't that they didn't contribute to the plot, it's that it's Donald and Goofy. Whenever I think of the two of them now I want to punch the closest person in the face. I'm not sure if I can really explain my point. It's just that I feel like they're out of place in the game. Mickey wasn't at all, I loved Mickey in the game, because he was serious, he had great quotes, etc. But Donald and Goofy were so silly at times, and they usually were idiots lol. I just felt like if they had been taken out of the game, or given a MUCH lesser role, and that if Square gave Sora OTHER friends, then the storyline would be BETTER, not that it already isn't.

Well I'm the complete opposite of your stance on Donald and Goofy.

QUOTE (Laguna)
but it was who they were that takes away from the game IMO.

Well who were they? They were exactly like Sora. Sora acts just like them, all the time throughout the whole game. What kind of partners are better suited for Sora than Donald and Goofy? He's not Squall, and I don't think they stood out in any other way than the fact that they were well known characters.

QUOTE (Laguna)
I loved Mickey in the game, because he was serious.

Like I said, Sora definitely isn't Squall or Cloud. He's an unserious and fun person, and so were these two. The ones who would be out of place around Sora would be those who don't contribute to making their journey fun. Which is what it was all about and why their friendship became so strong.

QUOTE (Laguna)
and that if Square gave Sora OTHER friends, then the storyline would be BETTER

What kind of cool posers do you want in the team then? Sora, Cloud and Squall for example. Great, except that then Sora would be the only clown in the group.

Cloud: "So like... are we like... friends now?"
Squall: "Whatever."
Sora: *gesturing* Come on guys!
Squall & Cloud: *walks away*
Sora: *bops his head and sighs*

Yeah I can feel the love. THAT would ruin the game.
So Donald and Goofy are too uncool to be in your team? Well that's your choice, but for me I don't think Sora could wish to have better friends than those two. Nor did I notice that Sora was the least bit interested in "acting cool" in front of the Organisation or others, or that he was ashamed at how him and his friends acted.
Were they important enough for Sora to mind his manners? Actually Sora usually couldn't care less about them. "Shut up" was usually the thing he'd say, uninterested to socialise with any of them unless they had information about Riku or Kairi. What he was interested in though was having fun with his friends, and they certainly did. The game really showed what great friends the three of them were, because they all acted alike and enjoyed each others company. It was their friendship that made their journey into what it was. And one thing it wasn't was a pose fest where they had to act cool in front of everyone. I definitely like their carelessness more than all the "cool" behaviour I've seen in almost every rpg, including this one.

What I enjoy is how much fun they seemed to have, and not how "serious" they acted. But just because they always had fun together and acted goofy doesn't mean that they weren't thinking seriously. There's a big difference between acting serious and thinking serious. All three often came to the same conclusion at the same time. And at times when Sora was down, for example when he couldn't find any info of Riku on the computer, it was Goofy who thought of searching for the Organisation.
And during the scene when Goofy got hit in the head with the boulder when saving Mickey, I actually took that scene seriously. Something I know I normally wouldn't have if it wasn't for how Donald and Goofy were portrayed in Kingdom Hearts.

Well not everyone has to like Donald and Goofy. But I got the impression that Sora wouldn't want the kind of team some of you guys wanted. He seemed perfectly happy with these two, and it's because of how they always acted like true friends do that their journey was a memorable one for me.
Athrun
Well on topic, I fought Marluxia in KH 2: Final Mix earlier, and boy is that battle tough. If your death count reaches zero you die instantly, and it goes down one number every hit you take. I also tried fighting Larxene, but I died pretty quickly.
Athrun
Well I beat the game yesterday. But I haven't really done many of the extras yet. I have some more things to do, like beating the Order members from Chain of Memories, (I wanted to make a separate save file in the end where I have them all available. Because you can only beat them once.) fighting the Knight, accessing the new World/Secret area, and beating the The XIII Mushroom Order. =p



Ph33r the Mushroom Order. =p





Sora can get a crown, and a new Keyblade.



And I want to get to this place.
Alazuli
Hahaha, the crown is proof of beating the mushrooms or what?
It's cute, but it looks like it might get a little annoying after a while. Can you take it off? =o
Zero.Bench
Not sure if anyone has seen this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsBRuIrAnEo

A Walkthrough of the Cave of Remembrance, just in case anyways.
sephirothalmasy
I'm pretty excited about all the nice additions to KH II:FM, though I'm seriously worried that it might not get a US release. It's sales in Japan are Pretty Impressive, tho, so it would seem highly propable it's getting a US release.

The Disney element was the reason I got so excited once I heared about KH, but later on, with the Release of KH2 and how the Disney element seemed a little too much, I found myself thinking how awsome a Less Disney-infested KH would be. I mean, I LOVED reliving the movies, it's just that KH is starting to get it's really distinct feel now (Twilight Town/Traverse Town/TWtNW/Hollow Bastion), and it's pretty impressive.

Overall, I don't think KH would be the Same without Disney, but it would difinitely be better with LESS Disney biggrin.gif
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