Split from another topic when Atty and I were getting into an argument over D pads and Analogs for fighters. So feel free to join in on the fun. I'm basically aruging that analogs are no slower than the D pad for responding to fighters... Not which is better to use.

I've never have a problem doing streetfighter esque movies on an analog myself. It took me awhile to get used to at first but it's a bit easier to make sure your motions are connecting... At least I think so.

To me it's more simple on a D-pad. But the problem I mentioned is that an analog is much slower than a D-pad when it comes to motions liek that. You should know what response time means in fighting games if you think about mouse settings on a FPS. If your opponent uses an analog in King Of Fighters and you use a D-pad you'd have an advantage in excecuting moves faster.


Yeah my thoughts exactly.

I don't see how you can really state that as fact. I mean to each their own as far as D-Pad/Analog but the analog moves smoothly and quickly in a fluid motion so I don't see how it's any slower than the D Pad.

It's not like I started playing fighters yesterday either... I played with D pads up until the playstation when they started supporting analog for some fighters like MvC and all that and just moved to analog for some reason and I never noticed that moves were pulled off any slower.

I did like the Sega Saturn pad though for fighters because of the d pad on that controller. It had like smoothed out d pad unlike the PS pads where it's just up down left and right... It was way easier to do rolling motions and such with the pad than the PS pad.



You can't really tell from that pic but they have little like down towards or up towards buttons between each of the d pad buttons and that was one thing I didn't like about the PS pad... It made it harder, at least for me, to do a lot of rolling motions which apply to most of the fighters I played at the time so I moved to the analog and after adjusting became pretty solid with it. Never noticed that it was any slower than the d pad though.

The time it takes to move the stick from neutral to one end takes longer than pressing down a d-pad a fraction of a milimeter. The distance is shorter for digital controlls.
Why do you think all 2-D fighting games still use digital controls rather than analog? They offer analog as options, but the main controls are always digital.


Using analog triggers for a function that only requires a button is tedious.
You might as well use analog triggers for the main buttons instead. Think about that for a bit. Doing that every time you need to jump or attack. That's the way I feel every time I need to press down that trigger for blocking.

Mmk. I do just the same as I did with the d pad in MvC2 with an analog but whatever brosef.

Well the D-sticks at the arcade only have 8 simple direction points. They "click" as soon as you move them in any direction. It's like putting a stick on a D-pad, basically. It can actually work faster than a D-pad even, since you use your whole arm/wrist to move it.

Analogs work though, I just prefer D-pads cause it requires less motion.

QUOTE (TED)

QUOTE (Athrun)

To me it's more simple on a D-pad. But the problem I mentioned is that an analog is much slower than a D-pad when it comes to motions liek that.

I don't see how you can really state that as fact. I mean to each their own as far as D-Pad/Analog but the analog moves smoothly and quickly in a fluid motion so I don't see how it's any slower than the D Pad.

I DEFINITELY prefer analog over D-pad for any fighter with motion-inputs. The D-pad is just too damn cramped, and at least one out of every 3 tries doing a motion, I'll just end up repeatedly getting the character's downward or diagnal move(s) instead, and that annoys the #### out of me when I'm trying to do a game-winning special or something. And I personally don't find the analog any slower at all. If it is, it's by maybe .000001 seconds. And either way, I'd gladly sacrifice a little input speed if it means a 100% success rate on motion-inputs. The only area I find D-pad any faster is when you need to repeatedly hit one direction, but even that isn't difficult to do well with analog either. Most of my favorite fighters are more about motions anyway. So analog ftw.

n00b Saibot wins! XD


And those numbers are based on what? XD And the distance difference from neutral to "click" is around 10 times longer on an analog. So it should take you around 10 times longer to press it down. The reason you don't feel a difference is probably because the process is so fast to begin with.
But whether it's still fast or not, your opponent will still excecute most attacks faster than you. That can make a big difference in a match.


D-pad has a much higher success rate than analog for me. So its a personal preference. All in all it's the main preference for fighting games, because they still (10 years after the analog was introduced) use Digital as the main controls.
You can look up how well Tekken 5 Dark ressurection works with the analog for PSP. Not very well at all. People in the community who have played Tekken games for 10 years had problems excecuting moves all of a sudden.


Each motion starts with tapping in a direction though. Those are the ones that are slower than digital controls. Rotation while in a direction should be as fast for both analog and digital. But Dragon punch for example even requires "two direction" inputs.
Also, I believe most of yout favorite fighters all require double taping for dashing back or forward fast? Guilty Gear and Soul Calibur for example.

Smash Brothers has analog controls though, so you really do need them for movement.

I just don't understand what you're getting at Atty because even if you move the analog slightly in the direction it's going the input is received... It doesn't have to be fully on that end to accept the input. Like if you move a stick slightly in any direction the input is received before you move the analog to the point it reaches.

So like... If you just slightly move the analog right you go right... Or whatever. You don't have to fully extend the analog in the direction to have your input received.

That's why I don't understand your argument at all man. I mean to each their own as far as digi and analogs, but one isn't faster than the other. Also d pads are still coded into games because what the hell else would they be used for in a fighter?

Split topic by the way. We'll have a grand general gaming debate.

TED, playing like that is very awkward. Just making a milimeter motion in each direction, can you see someone play a fighter like that where you have to restrict your movements when you play with reflexes and fast inputs? Besides, analogs have a certain friction/resistance near the center which is why people usually instinctively move them towards the edge even when you don't have to.
Why do you think pros play with D-pads rather than analog? Why are d-pads used in tournament if analogs are "just as fast"?

I know that you guys dig the analog, and that's fine by me. But the reason that digital controls are still standard is for the reasons I mentioned. Analog is an option for you guys to use since you like it. It's just slower by default.

And digital controls are not coded into fighting games (if that's what you meant), they're standard. It's analog controls that are coded in afterwards. (Almost always that is. Games like Smash Brothesr are exceptions.)

And I believe you had a similar discussion with JD-san about analog vs. mouse and which one is faster/more accurate.
But whether you see it or not, digital has remained standard for a reason, don't you think?

Well it's not slower for me I pull off 28 hit air combos and motions just fine in MvC 2 with the analog.

Maybe I'm just special.

I'm sure you are. =p

Does like MLG or CPL even do fighters? I'm just curious if there's an actual pro league for fighters. I mean tournaments are one thing, but real pros are like in the pro leagues.

And if you want to test my skills I'll play you in MvC or a KoF title in mame with an analog and we'll see how it rolls brosef. Even though I really don't care for the logitech analog pad for fighters I think I've been working on getting it down.

Dunno, I don't think there's a single league because it's spread all over the world. There are big toutnaments for KOF and other arcade fighters going on all the time, but usually mostly in Asia. There are plenty of entertaining vids from them though. For example Daigo vs. Justin in SF3 is a classic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSGW7CwD5GM

I get chills every time I see that.

I prefer the D pad. I actually never fully adopted analog control in fighters and when i do try it i feel its weird. But i never saw it as superior or the right way to play fighters, its a matter of choice, dont see why you guys get your knickers in a twist about this.

Oh and yes Hicks, that Daigo video is impressive everytime you see it, like the video says, you had to be there, you can almost feel the earth shatter when he parries the attacks.

You know I just did a half circle fireball on my PS2's digital pad and a half circle fireball with the analog in Street Fighter Alpha and the result was the same.

I'm just so magical. One no slower than the other.



You don't just make a milimeter motion and making a full motion is fine and my movements aren't restricted. You act like I've never played a fighter or something dude. I'm saying that the analog accepts your input in the direction when you make a minor movement.

You act like there's just this immense gap from direction to direction on the analog and it's not sensitive to movement in fighters like it is in shooters and games where you maintain pitch and yaw movement where moving it slightly moves a targeting reticle or camera slightly. Moving it forward moves you forward... Same goes for any other motion.

The sound of the crowd going wild when he starts parrying the attacks is just insane. I WISH I had been there.


Really though, that argument doesn't work since it's only what you can feel. And you don't even know how fast it takes you to ptess down a D-pad. Neither do I.

It's slower and that's a fact. And it's why none of the fighting games adapted the analog controls for the arcades. What do you think has been holding them back for the past 10 years? It's simple logics. You may not feel the difference, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
While you may not notice, a vast majority of the fighting community and pretty much all the developers feel that digital controls are better.

Or maybe you can explain why fighting games still use digital controls? Or why they don't give you analog pads instead of mouses in FPS tournaments?

"Pro" players are using the D-pad in tournaments because most of them have been playing fighters from long before analog was ever introduced in a fighting game. And of course there's also the fact that some of the fighters out there are just never coded with analog functionality, so these "pro" players just seem to prefer the more traditional and universal controller style. But that doesn't mean it's superior. And I'm quite sure there's "pro" tournament players out there who prefer analog. And when it comes to double tapping as you say, it's more like a tap and a half, which kinda feels like a certain fluid motion when you get used to it.

I used to use nothing but the D-pad for quite some time, and I did indeed feel like the analog was inferior when I first tried it. But given time, I found it worlds above d-pad functionality and generally error-free when it comes to motions, unlike the crampy D-pad that often inputs the wrong moves. Over-all the analog is not any slower at all as far as I can tell. It only seems that way for users who're aren't used to it, and who move the analog around in a rough way treating it as if it were the D-pad. But once you really get in tune with it and realize how smooth and reliable it is, or for me at least, it was a change that improved my game a lot.

Yeah, so is the CPL and MLG. The CPL tournament was held in Paris this year if I remember correctly. So they're not " pros " they're just kids who play tournaments.



The timing on my analog fireball and the d-pad fireball were the same... How do I not know how fast it goes? Hadouken Hadouken. THANK YOU.



Because arcades are dead and no one wants to invest money changing boards or the designs?

I've made my statements, seen it with my own two eyes, and that's good enough for me. I are done with this because Atty is the king of the endless argument reguardless of " Logics " as he likes to call it.

Coming from someone who said he fails D-pad motions once every third try? XD Kidding. But seriously, it shouldn't even be once in 100, or you'll get serious problems.

We all grew up with D-pads but adjusted to analogs for almost every other game genre, didn't we? It's not used as standard because its slower compared to a D-pad.


Unless you somehow timed it digitally, you can't detect differences when it comes to fractions of a second very well.
There are tier lists for Tekken based on frame rates for every move. You don't see it with your eyes, but it gives you an advantage, officially by tiers. The same advantage you gain with a D-pad, whether you can see/feel it or not.

That's why fighting game developers don't make analog controls as standard.


Arcades have been updated many times you know. All sporting digital controls might I add. They're quite big in Japan you know, even for tournaments.


Well it's not very different from when you tried to convince JD that you have an upper hand using a mouse over an analog. (Maybe he changed his mind since then though.)
But you guys obviously don't "want to" think that a D-pad is faster than an analog, for whatever reason.
Probably because it's your personal preference, and saying that you're playing with "inferior technology" by choice probably gives you nightmares about supporting the Wii. XD


Well what else can I say? Fighting games still use digital for a good reason. But if you guys like the analog, then rock on with it. Who cares.

I can use both perfectly, but I prefer the analog because its more comfortable. More often than not, when the option is available to use both, I use both. (How? I find certain motions better to do on an analog than d-pad. Dashing is so much easier on Dpad than analog.)

Yeah.

For a lot of the character moves you need "fluid control" and the D-pad is a bit of a hit or miss. It's still ok to use it, but you are a lot more prone to messing up the motion with the D-pad because the 30* motion going in either direction(left or right) that DF can easily be skipped.

My example is Chun-Li's Hanzan Tenshokyaku and Charlies Somersault Justice(they both have charge moves that begin in the DB position and end in the DF position). Also Guys Bushin Musourenka(half circle motion). It's better to use analog for those.

You know how Akuma can do his Tatsumaki Zankukyaku full screen and then upwards? Well it's possible to do that but its extremely hard to pull off with the D-pad(the regular motion for the move + you need to go in Forward-Up postion towards the end of the string)