I have been playing suikoden since the beginning and the first 2 were great but all the others were well rubbish.

Does anyone else feel like this I mean the story lines were ok but the game was meant to be 2d it doesn't look good in 3d they may be good games but to me it isn't suikoden anymore, anyone have any thoughts?

castlevania is another game they ruined by making it 3d from 2d I think these games should have stayed 2d.

I think they have ruined this series at least for me by making it 3d.

Not at all, I like the graphics either way. But I guesss I prefer them to keep the 3d graphics since the characters look more detailed.

And generally, as long as it doesnt change the gameplay, 3d is a welcomed change.

Yeah, i'm with Athrun on this Suikoden 3 and 5 are generally considered brilliant rpgs in their own right and many even hold 3 and 5 up there with 2 as the best in the series. I like 2D and 3D rpgs but I prefer the direction Suikoden V has gone so far.

If you have played Suikoden V than you would have known it is actually a pretty good game.
I say, graphics shouldn't matter the quality of a RPG.
The story is what is important and even though Suikoden III and IV weren't as good as the first two, Suikoden V did a good job and many people like this game.

for me 1&2 looked fun and were fun with exciting gameplay.
but the more sophisticated the graphics the gameplay changes drasticaly from previous titles like final fantasy
7,8 and 9 fun the later ones good(don't get me wrong brilliant games) but the fun dissapears 4 5 and 6 (suikoden) didn't seem like an adventure to me just one big cut scene.

1&2 had the best gameplay the best battle system, war system why change what doesn't need changing.

Suikoden V was fun to play for me as well. There was a moment that annoyed the hell out of me, which was a forest dungeon in where you kept walking in circles and for example the camera angle.
Another thing I didn't liked from the game was the strategist.
You know, in older Suikoden games you are always behind your opponent and you loose battles often enough, this did not happen in Suikoden V.

The best battle system is in my opinion Suikoden V. Why? Well, it is actually quite easy. In Suikoden V you can completely customize your set-up completely. You can change your tatctics, which gives you several bonuses, your characters stand in a diffirent formation and every tactic has a special attack.

The war system in Suikoden V is a bit odd, though fun to use. The thing I did not like about this was that it was a bit slow and that almost everything hits you in battle.
Though I prefer the funny looking thing from Suikoden I and II.

You know, Suikoden 1 and 2 had just as many cutscenes (if not more). Right at the beginning of Sui 2 theres a rather long chain of them during the raid on the Highland camp, and when Riou and Jowy jump down the waterfall. Not to mention all the textbox dialogues scenes. The only thing that's changed is that the graphics improved, but perhaps due to your bias towards 2D you can't see past the surface? I don't know what to tell you there, but the games are structured the same way theyve always been.

As for the gameplay I thought Suikoden 2 and 5 had the best war systems. Suikoden 1's war system was basically rock, paper, scisors and nothing else. Suikoden V seems to combine that system with the war system from Suikoden 2. It was a bit too much to handle some times though, as units all over the map collide and interupt your own acctions.

Generally though, I thought Suikoden 5 had the best and most refined battle system so far, even though they made it way too easy at the same time.

I am one of many that prefer suikoden in 2d, in fact more people state konami has ruined the series for them and it has for me 3,4,5 are ok games but shouldn't be in the suikoden series all games companies does this here are some eg's.

castlevania spent a long time in 2d hit the n64 with 3d and flopped ps2 versions were better but at least they make most castlevanias on nintendo ds or gameboy advance.

alundra was a great game then came alundra 2 which had nothing to do with alundra(the name of the game alundra dream walker ALUNDRA is the hero) the 2nd was flint who? wasn't even a dream walker and graphics were ruined as well.

wild arms 1,2 were good the rest had a horrible black outline around the characters and they looked like paper all in order to have more detail for the characters.

there is an exception here as in final fantasy as they are all different adventures except the number 10 sequels
so the difference in graphics plays a key role and are great games.

I am just gutted that the suikoden series was ruined just by 3d graphics the graphics were lame specially number 5.

an opinion of many.

Not all games that have started out as 2D were ruined by going 3D and that includes Suikoden. If you take a look at alot of the dedicated Suikoden forums around the web you'll find that most fans hold Suikoden 5 as 'back to its original form' whether in 3D or not, so its always going to be something thats up for debate. The Tales series which is brilliant in 2D but definitely an improvement in 3D.

I agree with you about Castlevania and Alundra. Wasn't Alundra 2 by a different team to who did the first? I like Wild Arms 1 and I used to own it (but I sold it, which is something I regret) but I am one of many who feels that the remake Alter Code F was an improvement over the original. Oh yeah I think you mean cell shading when referring to the black outline, which I like, but its better in Digital Devil Saga, Rogue Galaxy, DQ VIII Tales Of Symphonia and Dark Cloud 2.

I really don't think Suikoden 1 and 2 being favoured over the others has anything to do with its graphics its more to do with its story than anything else, and Suikoden 3 and 5 seems to have that down, especially since Suikoden 5 won story of the year on IGN last year voted by readers so I think you'll find thats the majority opinion. I totally have to disagree with you about Suikoden 5's graphics being lame though, I think the character designs and towns look pretty damn good.

That and the best Castlevania up to date is not even fully 2D. Symphony of the Night is more 3D than for example Aria of Sorrow and Circle of the Moon.

Also, so far you are the only person I have seen on this forum that is claiming that Suikoden III, IV and V are not as good as Suikoden I and II, because they have improved the graphics.
If you love your 2D graphics so much, than you should stick to the NES and SNES consoles and not play anything released on the PSX/PS2/PS3.

From reading your posts I get the feeling its more you having a problem with the 3d than the game having issues with it. You haven't really explained why the 3D graphics would ruin the Suikoden games, and frankly I don't think there is one. Cutscenes have always been there, in 2d or 3d alike. But unlike the examples you gave (Castlevania for example) there's a big difference here in that the 3D gameplay didn't affect Suikodens gameplay at all.

Castlevania on the other hand was a platformer, and being in 2d it meant only being able to go left, right, up or down. Going to 3d suddenly added a whole new dimension of movements and stage design, altering the gameplay immensely. However, Suikoden was completely unaffected by the jump to 3D when it comes to gameplay. You still have the overhead view, you can still run around in any directions, enter houses and talk to people etc. Nothing changed.
And as Cloudycat mentioned a lot of people hold Suikoden V in very high regard and I can't say I've seen "many" who feel the 3d ruined the series. I frequent suikox and suikosource's boards and I see the complete opposite there.

Suikoden 4 is disliked because of story, game length and character development issues, but this "3d ruined the series" and "they shouldn't even be in the series" is news to me. And I wholeheartedly have to disagree with you there. Suikoden V was a brilliant game.

1 and 2 were great but graphics mean crap in an RPG, its all about the story and III and V were both very solid in that aspect.. IV was atleast decent and Tactics was ok.. so no i think the series has been just fine after 1 and 2 and has really made a name for itself as great series

Suikoden 1 was the best altho 2 wasnt bad 3 was sorta repetative i.e same thing all over again however 4 was refreshing i found and 5 wasnt too bad either

also as Pesmerga said the graphics shouldnt matter its all about the story line and how hooked you get for me im on my 7th play through of Suikoden 1 and im still finding new things


Voluspa