Edit: Corrected topic title, I originally had something else in mind. After discussion (see the other posts) I've come to realise that the similarities mentioned below are just references to Vagrant Story (seeing as a previous game of the FFXII director was Vagrant Story). There's many of them, though. The list below is incomplete, if you know more feel free to post them.

I'm sure most people who've played both games have noticed the many similarities between Vagrant Story and FFXII (they share the same director, after all). To list a few;

- FFXII's battle system is quite similar to Vagrant Story's, it uses the same concept.
- In Vagrant Story, you can create equipment by combining several materials. In FFXII, selling materials (loot items) to merchants will cause them to create equipment or items with it, which are then put up for sale.
- In Vagrant Story, you can teleport to other (previously visited) locations at save points by using the Teleportation spell. In FFXII, you can teleport to other locations at the (orange) save crystals by using Teleport Stones.
- Some of the enemy designs are quite similar (like the dragon bosses, for example).
- Each room on the map has its own name, in both games.
- In Vagrant Story, Ashley is a Riskbreaker. One of the clan rankings in FFXII is "Riskbreaker".
- The music is very similar in both games (it's also the same composer, so duh).
- As the director stated, both games are set in Ivalice.

FFXII seems to play more fluent and fast-paced, but the story isn't anything too special. Vagrant Story had a nicely developed, dark story, but the game could be fairly hard if you didn't employ all the options well. FFXII is more forgiving with the gameplay. To me FFXII feels like an improved Vagrant Story as far as gameplay goes, but the story is lacking in that regard.

So for those who've played both games; did you pick up on the many references, and which game do you like best? Personally, I like FFXII best for gameplay, and Vagrant Story for story (and the gameplay is also quite fun, but I prefer FFXII's gameplay).

Hell no.

I'm a huge fan of Vagrant Story, I've beaten it over 100 times and have an ultimate file. (Holy Win, etc)

Final Fantasy XII is absolutely nothing like Vagrant Story. Vagrant Story had a great story, one that was complex, one that took more than one gameplay to understand, not Final Fantasy XII.

Final Fantasy XII's story is horrible in comparison, and the gameplay is horrible in comparison as well. It's more like a DOWNGRADED version of Vagrant Story. The only thing more impressive the are the graphics.

Which isn't surprising. It's on the PlayStation 2, instead of 1.

I agree about the story, but can you elaborate on why you think the gameplay is so horrible in comparison? Because I don't see much difference;

Vagrant Story: You run up to the enemy, and when he's in range you target him (you can target specific parts of the body, but the head and torso are often the most vulnerable). You use physical attacks or spells to defeat the enemy.

FFXII: You run up to the enemy, and when he's in range you target him (though you can't target any specific body parts). You use physical attacks, spells or technics to defeat the enemy. You can set up battle patterns with the Gambit system to speed things up.

The only difference is the body parts targeting and the Gambit system. And I personally like the latter more. So I'm wondering what you consider so bad about the FFXII battle system, is it the Gambit system? Or do you think that being able to target specific parts of the body adds more depth to the battles? I'm just curious to know. =p

Based in Ivalice, same team, so yeah similar. But no.

You answered your own question, But I will elaborate.

The depth of Final Fantasy XII is shallow compared toe Vagrant Story.

There are body parts to aim, thousands of weapons and armor combinations, attributes.

Sure, you run up to an enemy, and attack it, but if we were going to play that game a lot of games would be exactly like Vagrant Story or Final Fantasy XII.

Vagrant Story take skill and depth. Not like Final Fantasy XII.

I guess so. Perhaps not similar to Vagrant Story, but rather full of references to it. I've read on the net that Léamonde is mentioned in the game as well, but I personally haven't seen this anywhere in the game. The director at least said that the stories take place in settings not too far away from eachother, but I haven't seen Léamonde mentioned in FFXII yet. Then again, I should probably try talking to more NPC's.

Well FF XII doesn't have much to do with range in combat. The only thing you can use it for is for a way to initiate combat. Once combat starts it doesn't matter where you stand on the battlefield, unless you run away. In Vagrant Story you always have to be in range to excecute attacks on the enemy.


Physical attacks, spells and technics (a.k.a. skills) are used in most other rpgs as well.


Well what else is there that makes them similar then? It's the range and bodypart system that makes Vagrant Story's battle system stand out from other battle systems, and it's FF XII's Gambit system and real time battle system that sets it appart from others mainly.

I've only played Vagrant Story for a bit so I can't compare them on other levels, but I
didn't think Vagrant Story's battle system was similar to FF XII's

Yah, I guess the battle system isn't as similar as I first thought. Only on first sight, maybe. But the other similarities I mentioned are still there. But perhaps I should consider them to be references instead of similarities (I know, no eggs =P ). I just had the feeling that with all those references it was as if I was playing a sequel to Vagrant Story or something, that's why I first said it seems like another Vagrant Story kind of game. But now I must reconsider, as that doesn't appear to be entirely right. =s

Well I'm guessing it's not quite like what Xenosaga is to Xenogears, since they're in a way different takes on the same series. Vagrant Story and FF XII are two different series though. But I wouldn't be surprised if the director left a lot of references (that's right, no eggs) to his previous game in this one.

No.

And I have nothing more to say. Consider this a spam post or whatever, but I think you're off the mark, Xern.

Lol, I'm probably mistaken here, yes. xP It was just my first impression of the game, but it wasn't a correct one. I think Athrun's last post just about sums it up. "FFXII = Vagrant Story references" would have been a better guess.

Why did you even made this thread?

Didnt common sense kicked it just before clicking on "Topic"?

Common sense kicked in when it was pointed out to me. That's what a discussion is for; to reach a conclusion. And in this case we can conclude that I shouldn't be high on yaoi when making topics like these.

But this thread still served to point out the Vagrant Story references in the game, though I doubt anyone would have missed them. There's more than what I listed too, and I'm sure I missed out on some. I'll edit my first post and correct the topic title.

I'd still like to know where that Léamonde reference is, anyone knows? I want to see what they have to say about that place.

Maybe because he just finished the game recently, and having it fresh in mind he saw only similarities, and didn't take a step back to let everything sink in yet until he started discussing it in this topic?

I remember finishing MGS2 and thinking it was such a great game in every way until I started discussing it and reviewing it bit by bit that I realised my feelings of it were a bit different after letting everything sink in.
That's why it's good to discuss things.

ARGH go to hell nazis.

1> um, how? how are the battle systems similar? VS uses a chaining system when enables you to chain attacks together with precise button taps... in FFXII, it's real time. pick a target, attack, and wait for your next turn. no chains, no targetting specific body area. so: Vagrant Story battle system =/= FFXII battle system.
2> How can you compare combining weapons to create better weapons to selling loot and the merchants sell the combine goods? THERE AREN'T ANY MERCHANTS IN Vagrant Story. weapons/armor drop is rare in Vagrant Story; whereas loot drops in FFXII range from common drops to rare drops.
3> Yes, you can teleport in Vagrant Story- Pretty much to any save point. Though, however, in FFXII- you can only teleport to specified save crystals- most of which are near the entrance of a dungeon or within a town. You never leave Lea Monde in Vagrant Story. in FFXII, you travel all over Ilvalice.
4> Of course the monster design are similar. the art director is the same in both games. though, i prefer Vagrant Story's art style.
5> Wow, finally an actual reference to Vagrant Story! somewhere, i read that the Rood Inverse was also found somewhere in the game.
6> eh, never really paid attention to the music.
7> Vagrant Story is a stand-alone game, not part of the FF series. Ilvalice may be where FFXII (and i think, FF-Tactics?) takes place; but VS takes place in Valedia (Ashley and Callo are Valedian Knights of Peace- the VKP). Show me a map of Ilvalice; then show me Valedia, then show me where Lea Monde is. i highly doubt Valedia is within Ilvalice, since Vagrant Story is a complete independant game.

Valendia is a continent of Ivalice in FF12




Source

Aside from that there are quite a few more references in FF12 to Vagrant Story and Tactics so I wouldn't say it was a completely independent game from the two said Final Fantasy titles because it's not, check out the other references below or check out the site.




One of the enemies in FF12 is the Leamonde Entite. Leá Monde is the city of the dead which most of Vagrant Story takes place in.

Other references taken from the above site.

Vagrant Story has a Kiltian Temple as one of its later dungeons; the Light of Kiltia is the main religion in FF12.

The "naturalist Merlose" is often quoted in FF12's Clan Primer; Callo Merlose was a major character in Vagrant Story.

FFTA mentions the "Grand Grimoire", a possible reference to Vagrant Story's Gran Grimoire. Regular grimoires play a role in VS's gameplay as well; FF12 also has many "forgotten grimoires".

Vagrant Story's introduction is given by "A.J. Durai" - this is Alazlam from FFT, himself a descendant of Olan from the same game.

There's lots of other interesting FF references on that site too, if anyone is mildly interested in the FF series then its definitely worth a look. So back on the note of Vagrant Story and its links to Final Fantasy 12 and Tactics they are definitely there(some vague and some not so vague) and not just in the art direction or music which are clear for obvious reasons.

well, #####. i liked Vagrant Story because of it's independence from the FF series, among other things. If Vagrant Story is related to the FF series, then that just make the game less credible. i know most the FF games aren't related, but still.

Lol!! Sorry to spoil it for you man. Well it's still a very unique game and a damn site better than FF12 if that's any consolation and being loosely related to Tactics ain't that bad is it?

So a relation between Vagrant Story and the FF games makes Vagrant Story not as good to you? I realize that you're almost religious with your ongoing FF hate, which I guess is due to the overhype behind most of them? Well hating a game because it's hyped isn't any better than liking it for that specific reason alone. Both cases are pretty damn ignorant, and it's even more ignorant to downplay one of your favorite titles just because of a little cross-referencing. So, seriously, let go and recognize that a good game is a good game, regardless of name, series, or relation to other titles. But maybe one day, just for you sigs, there'll be a Vagrant Story remake entitled "Final Fantasy Vagrant", at which time I can honestly imagine you crying yourself to sleep.

As for the topic at hand, I would've never guessed VS was related, but that's kinda interesting I guess, even though I didn't like VS all that much. Maybe I'll notice more myself when I play through FF12, whenever I get to it that is.

yea, because i didn't like Tactics.

S/E tainted the very being of Vagrant Story by slapping it right in the middle of the FF universe. VS could have definitely remained outside the FF universe- and it'll always remain so to me.

JD-san, i don't entirely hate the FF series. i liked FF8 & FF9... haven't finished FFXII yet, just got FFVI for my GBA. the only FF game i bash without relent is FF7- the most overhyped game ever. look at my Avatar- it's Ashley Riot mocking Clod.

most the "similiarities" Xerno listed, are just that- similarities. though, the games aren't that similar.
Cloddycat (yea, i'm mocking you too) listed the "references" which is creepy. Go play Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne.

Cloddycat?? Hey don't shoot the messenger, I never said the games were similar, just that they were based in the same 'universe' because you basically said that VS was completely independent of the FF series and I gave references that proved otherwise. Enjoy the game for what it is because at the end of the day a good game is a good game it shouldn't make any difference if its well known or hyped up. - For the record I love the SMT series(and many other Atlus RPGs) and have even suggested it gets it own forum for all the good it got me when all I got back is twatty sarcasm or replies like its "just not well known enough", and yet they have a Dot Hack forum.

On the same subject I never understood why there was never a sequel to Vagrant Story considering it was the fifth best selling PS1 game. Perhaps if they do, Cloud and Barret will make a special appearance - heh heh just kidding sigs.

True, and I already agreed on that:


I was mistaken about the battle system. But while my other examples of references may not have been the best ones (at best rather vague ones, perhaps even non-significant as you say), there are some real ones out there. But I've missed out on all the bigger ones, it seems. Like this one:


I would have recognised Merlose's name instantly, but it seems I didn't pay enough attention to the Clan Primer. =s

if they had said INQUISITOR Merlose, then it probably would have been more apparent.

@cloddycat- a couple years ago, i started working on my own Vagrant Story fanfic... it's been dead in the water since. the story revolves more around Callo as she and Ashley travel back to Lea Monde to stop the Cardinal (the guy that send Guildenstern and the other Crimson Blades into Lea Monde after Sydney and his cult) from resurrecting Guildenstern. as a joke, i had Ashely fight an 'unnamed one-winged angel' *coughStuperothcough* and Ashley beats him without batting an eyelash. (in fact, Ashley uses a Break Art- Cherry Rhonde- to do him in.)

hmmm, Callo.

Hey Paperlink

From one huge VS fan to another. Been waiting years for a game similar to VS. Know of any similar games out there

Cheers

Considering the timeline, Vagrant story happens thousands of years in the future from FFXII, but a bit before FFT, which next to the beginning of FFTA is the latest on the timeline. The Merlose thing is just a reference.
Never played it though.

people keep knocking ffxii's story all the time like it's a reincarnation of hitler or something.

Nono. It had a great story. Its just, half of the characters were irrelevent/shoved into that story, and while having some development, had little depth. Well, thats my thoughts. I still enjoyed playing the game.

I'll promise you that any game directed by Matsuno will be related to another game directed by Matsuno eventually. He likes to set things on at least the same planet as his other works.

And Sigs, it may be connected to FF series, but it's vague - most people don't know about it - and it's not trying to obviously profit from it being related as such. It isn't like Kingdom Hearts which some people bought for Cloud or ##### like that. FFT-XII are hardly FFs game in most people's eyes anyway. God knows how many people keep renouncing FFXII as a "final fantasy becuz ifrit should've been a summon not effin' airship."