Yeah, out of all the series. this is my favorite one.
i hated the seventh one. I KNOW I KNOW, u guys think its COOL, but i hated it. It was just... bad.
please dont hate me 8(. The characters were the coolest though. I just don't like the game...

Well if u played the seventh one, can someone PLEASE tell me a way to beat Ultimecia's castle.
it's really really annoying me. What should i unlock first, cuz nothings workin.

And I wanted to ask you what is ur favorite GF. Cuz mine is actually Leviathan. I know that's also weird. But yeah.

Magic, GF, and Item were all I needed. As for GF's, Gilgamesh by far.

The only purpose I got from the GF's was the strength stat junction. Apart from that though all they really did was take up space, they were practically useless compared to Squall's limits. So basically I don't have a favourite, so I'll just say Bahamut because of the whole dragon thing.

Attack wise GF was quite annoying in the long run in one battle, and as you said limit breaks are faster and more efficient! even if there's a risk

Still this is my favorite FF too!

I have to say Ifrit, this is my favorite version of him.
Brothers is close on second place.

I think every GF you interactive with, was better (as characters) becouse they had a personality, that Shiva or quezelot (or what his name was again) didn't, becouse, you only got them!

if ur having trouble with Ultemcia's castle go to

www.gamefaqs.com

And if u find that the bosses are too hard for u (besides the Weapon), then u should really be careful about fighting Ultemcia. I've only seen 2 ways to beat her, one was with hacks (and a glitch i could use to my advantage), or a very specific one.

Get the Laguna card, turn it into an item. You'll get 100 Heros, cast hero on urself and u will not be affected by ANY attacks. It's best to use this after her GF tho, because the GF will bring u down to 1 HP each, and if u use a hero then, u will have unlimited Limit breaks to use (Genius strategy on my friend's part)

I highly doubt your friend made that strategy.

Anyway, as was said by Arashika, GF, Item and Magic are pretty much what you need, considering you can do everything with those three.
Of course you can use things such as Limit Break, but it is not necessary.

Yeah, GF, Item, and Magic sound like pretty much all you'll need, though Limit Break certainly makes things significantly easier. (Aura and Aura Stones will both be at your disposal once you unlock Magic and Item, so abusing Limit Breaks with those will certainly help.) Save's locked, too, isn't it? Might wanna grab that, if you don't want to leave the castle every time you wish to save.

If you need to level (well, first of all, this requires taking the detour of finding the Ragnarok again, since you're already on Disc 4), I recommend junctioning 100 Deaths to Squall's status-attack (assuming one of his junctioned GF's has the ability enabled), as well as Initiative, and visiting the Island Closest to Hell (Need a map?). All of the monsters there are level 100, but almost all of them will be taken down in one shot from Squall, thanks to the 100 Deaths (and Initiative, for attacking as soon as the fight starts). Easily the quickest way to level up, I'd say. (Also, look around for draw points on the world map. The Island Closest to Heaven and the Island Closest to Hell both have several hidden draw points for great magic. Flare, Quake, Full-Life, Holy, Meteor, Ultima, etc.)

Kinda random note, but I'd recommend stocking up on Protect and Shell. Both are very handy in the final battles, especially for attacks like Shockwave Pulsar, Grand Cross, and Apocalypse. (I haven't played in a while, but I'm pretty sure both are available in Stones as well.) Having Triple or Double helps a bit with getting Protects/Shells setup quickly, so those can help. (Cerberus gets the job done well.)

If you can make it up to the final battle with Ultimecia, the main thing that makes it such a tough fight is her extremely cheap usage of this little thing called Hell's Judgment. >_< Instant 1 HP for your whole party, and she uses it very frequently. The best way to take care of this, I find, is to Card Mod Bahamut's Card, which will give you 100 Megalixirs.

That's pretty much all the advice I can think of at the moment.

Oh, no, wait. For the castle itself...

Sphinxara: This is the monster you'll see on the stairs at the entrance. It's supposed to be one of the easiest fights in the castle, since it should be your first, so if you have problems with it, then I'd suggest going elsewhere and leveling up. Just bludgeon the thing to death with physical attacks, and it'll go down soon enough.

Tri-Point: Found in the basement, after you bust the hatch in the floor open. It'll counterattack every attack (spells included? I forget) with a lightning-elemental attack, so that's the main attack it'll be using. Just junction your characters' elemental defense so that they nullify/absorb lightning, and you should be fine.

Tiamat: This is probably the last boss you encounter on your way to the final battle. You find it up in the bell tower, I believe. Anyway, the fight is entirely based on a countdown attack. After five turns or so, Tiamat uses Dark Flare (I think?), and then starts the countdown again. However, if you simply junction your characters' elemental defense so that they nullify/absorb the fire element, then you'll get through this fight without taking a single point of damage.
(By the way, you can Draw the GF Eden from it, if you didn't get it from Ultima Weapon. Assuming you have Draw enabled, that is. Might be beneficial, might not.)

Can't think of any other boss-specific advice, so if you need help with others, I'd say just check what GameFAQ's has to say about them.

Not all of us like FF VII (which includes me). Personally I thought it was a tad overrted but that's me.
In anycase FF 8 one of my favorite FFs, next to XII and Tactics. The only weakness I thought the game had was the junction system (I found it ennerving that if I casted a spell, my stats would be lowered, and drawing was a bitch) and the chemistry of someone of the characters. It didn't feel like the cast of characters (excluding Kiros, Ward, and Laguna) had a good balance, and none of them really seemed to be a memorable character other than Squall and Rinoa. Though hey, that's my opinion.

Just get someone with Counter and 100 Sleep spells junctioned to Status Attack, then have your entire party draw whatever from a monster, leave a book or something on the 'X' button, and go take a shower. By the time you come back, you have just gained 300 spells.

As for casting, well, I only use good spells when I need to. Even then you can just refine an item and get them back easily.

Seriously? You think she's THAT hard? I never once used heros to defeat her, and although annoying she can be easily dealt with using a combination of aura, limit breaks and the two best abilities in the game, Recover and revive. I guess I did have Squall's final weapon and I was well levelled... either way I never found her really THAT hard, just very tedious. Then again I haven't fought her for about 5 years so maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

I DO remember that GF's are basically useless in the final fight... only use them to junction. Make learning Recover and Revive a priority, and always have them equipped... makes everything so much easier. Has anyone ever set it up so that all 6 characters are battle ready for the final battle? I can never be bothered, I always just equip three of them and let the others die in battle and get whisked away.

I actually DID enjoy the Junction system in the game though. It took me a RIDICULOUSLY long time to figure out exactly how it gives stat boosts, and I think the game didn't do a good job explaining it, but when you cann really use it all to your advantage, there are some BIG incentives to master the Junctioning system.

I DO like the Sphere Grids in the newer games, but I also enjoyed the oldschool leveling that you had to do in FF8 in order to level up the GFs and get the abilities. Just because I liked the stat boosts of the HP, MP, and u could make ur own elemental strength and weakness with the Junction, and even set it have "No Random Battles", i cant remember which Summon this was though.

I think the animations DID get kind of annoying though, but overall I give the Junction system a B+/A.


I think these characters were my favorite out of any Final Fantasy (Besides FFT, and FF12 was a close 2nd), but the script in this game worked really well, the character art was some of my favorite, and the depth given to the characters made me enjoy them too.

Squall is probably ONE of the deepest main charactes I've seen in a while. You can clearly see a change from the beginning ot he game to the end, see how he got his mindset, and see how it changes when given a Leadship role and when Rinoa starts to make the intimacy between them grow.

If you really think about it, I almost think they stole Cloud's ultimate character from Squall. In FF7 we don't realy know the REAL Cloud because his memory is erased for most of the game so he's not really acting right, but once Advent Children comes around we really see Cloud like, contemplating who he is and whether or not he can do anything. It really reminded me of Squall how he became this silent protagonist that had a lot of inner confidence trouble.

Man... how many of these threads have I seen?

Well, I'm gonna go ahead and say what I say to each of them.

I thought that this game was complete drivel. The characters were dull and uninspired, the love story overshadowed the actual plot of what was going on in the game, the draw system for magic was tedious and arduous, the junction system was just a bad idea (and the first person to tell me that "I just didn't understand it" gets a d20 thrown at them).

But then again, I haven't really liked a Final Fantasy game since VI. VII was a decent title, but I could only play it once. After that, the beginners learning curve started to irk me a little bit.

IV, V, and VI is where it's at for the glory days of Final Fantasy.

oh man...

yeah those were GOOD games, they're nowhere on my top list of FAVORITE games though (Minus 6, i havent played 6). But 4 and 5 just had very similar plotlines, characters were good but the games are hindered IMMENSELY by the lack of real audio and graphics.

I LOVE the grandeur of newer RPGs, and although the old games were like, REALLY fun to play, they're nowhere near on my list of outstanding games.

Sorry?

"Real audio and graphics?"

Let me tackle the real audio part first.

Since Final Fantasy VI, there have been no great soundtracks. Sure they all had their standouts, FF VII had a couple of decent battle themes and One Winged Angel, FF VIII had Liberi Fatali, FF IX had Vamo' Alla Flamenco, and FF X had Otherworld. Aside from that, there hasn't been anything stand out.

I can name multiple tracks from the earlier games that I'll find myself occasionally humming. The Overworld map theme from Final Fantasy IV, the Aria from Final Fantasy VI (a great scene in the game that showed just what sprites could do, but I'll tackle that later), the battle theme from Final Fantasy III, the Prelude from FF V, Rydia's Theme from FF IV, Battle with the Four Fiends from FF IV, Locke's Theme from FF VI, and I could go on and on.

Hell, I even found myself humming both the Dwarves' Theme from FF IV and the song titled only as 'What?' from FF VI.

Uematsu was at his height during this time. The things that he could make those midi files do were insane. These newer soundtracks lack things that the earlier titles had: Originality. The Battle Theme in FF IX was nothing more than a remixed version of the Battle Theme in FF IV. There are certain things that full orchestration can do for a series. This was proved with the great sound "quality" that was presented in these later titles, but did nothing for the quality of the actual titles themselves. I don't care how great it sounds, I don't want to listen to Blue Fields, because it isn't anything new.

Uematsu did right by himself for getting out of the Final Fantasy series when he did. There was nothing that he could have done for it that would have been new. His Black Mages project was an interesting avenue, but it was nothing new

These eariler titles weren't hindered in any way, shape, or form by the "lack of real audio." In fact, the better audio that these later titles were able to support were indeed hindered by the lack of a real soundtrack.

Now we move onto the "graphics" portion of this little rebuttal.

This is a huge thing for me, as several members will remember debate like this back before my (second or third... I'm not really sure anymore) disappearance.

Good graphics do not a good game make. Especially in the case of RPGs. Yes, the game may look pretty, but if it means that I'm forced to deal with large load times and flaccid response from the game from the amount of bloated amount of pixels, I'm going to turn off the game and turn on something that plays smoother.

Now, before you tell me that there are things that aren't possible without the strides that recent graphics have given RPGs, such as character's facial expressions and all that jazz... I say bull #####.

Take a look at the games like Lunar. The character's portraits that accompanied their text would change to show their mood. Even so, there's a little ability that all humans possess called "drawing inferences" that allows them to take a good guess at what a person is feeling through context of what is currently happening.

For example, if my mom just died and you're reading my post about it, chances are you should be able to tell from what is happening, that I'm not happy, that I am indeed sad, even though you can't see me frowning or crying.

It's like reading a novel, minus the cues that tell you what the character is feeling as he is talking. It uses those same skills, and is more rewarding. How many times have you left a faithful movie adaptation of a book still slightly disappointed because there was nothing to figure out about what a character was doing or why he was saying what he was saying?

Even full text based games can provide a full and rich experience, leaving you to draw in the action, decide what a main character and main villain look like, etc etc.

Now to the next point. "You can't do the same things with the sprites of old that you can do with fully rendered character models action wise."

Bull ##### on that account. Do yourself a favor and play FF VI. Better yet, play Chrono Trigger, or Secret of Mana, or Seiken Densetsu 3. The things that these programmers are able to pull off with "severely limited graphics" is nothing short of impressive. The Opera scene from FF VI still stands out as one of the most impressive scenes I've seen to date, and that includes the rescue of Yuna from Bevelle in FF X and the opening scene of FF VIII. Nothing particular about those latter two jump to mind when I think about them. The Opera scene however, I can almost play from memory in my mind.

These titles weren't hindered in any way, shape or form by the "lack of real graphics." In fact, many of these newer titles are hindered by these "better" graphics, as they bloat the game, increase the load times, and lead to incredibly flaccid control.

VII always my favorite, primarily because it was the first RPG I really played.

However, VI is probs my second.

As you said Cyril, Celes Opera Scene, Timeless. Best villain in an RPG? Kefka obviously.

If people can't see past a few graphical downgrades shall we say, to have that prevent them from really appreciating the earlier FF's then how can you really they really think of themselves as RPGers?

And VIII? Not one of my favorites. Such a weak overall system. Where by the start of the Timber mission, if you play your cards right (pun intended all the way ) You can have some of the best spells in the game at the start of the game, henceforth never really appreciating the true power of the magic. Gf's look cool, granted, but lose any real value towards the end of the game.

And with the whole magic early on + junction = Very easy game due to uber strength and easy bosses.

With the exception of omega. which i have beat.

Oh and ultemecia? lemon squeezy, no effort required.

Or if you play your cards right in FF7, you can learn Omnislash and some other Level 4 Limit Braks on Disc 1 and kill every boss in the game in a single attack, never appreciating the true power of etc, etc

It's not hard to make a game easy, all you need is time and patience, patience is what most people lack an therefor most people advance the games in normal pace!

heck you can just run all the way through FFVIII without fighting anything else then bosses if you wanted, but what fun is that!

God it's nice to finally see someone who can agree with me on FF VIII (aside from my roommate).

Never finished the game, even when I forced myself to sit down and try to play through it. Never felt it to be important.

It's not that hard to actually find people who'd agree with your views on FF VIII. Albeit I don't think it is the greatest that has been made so far, I thought it was a fairly decent approach to attract a new audience. Though it didn't execute as Squeenix planned it would, much like FF XII, with the mixed reviews and criticisms it received.
P.S. I never finished the game as well, but then again that was for different reasons. Freaking Disk 3, why must you always screw up when I try to get materials for Rinoa's ultimate weapon!?

Man, thank you for saying this... it needed to be said. I'd disagree a little in the way that I love parts of the FFVII soundtrack, but I wonder if it has something simply to do with nostalgia. I'd still say that there is some wonderful orchestration in FFVII and not just because the sound quality was better (not that it really seemed that much better). The main point is that the music has just gone further and further down hill... FFX being the best example of this seeing as how 90% of FFX's background music was the same melody played at different tempos and with different instruments. I think that being restricted by quality in the SNES FFs made him step up his game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all music post-Snes era is terrible, but overall it just isn't as good quality writing.

Next, to the point about the junction system being too easily abused...


This is indeed a good point, BUT I think Manc answered what makes that different to abusing the junction system on FFVIII.

That's the point though, FFVIII didn't require patience or time, it was all pretty much handed to you if you had the intelligence to work it out. Either way, there wasn't really very much to FFVIII's battle system except attacking and limit breaks. In FFVI, all the characters had their own unique abilities and also there was an actual need to use magic. Hell, even in FFVII materia management was an important part of the game (sadly, it wasn't built on as much as I should have been and the overall difficulty of the game was too easy... *sigh*).

If you wanted to use any of the other mediocre abilities in FFVIII (which the majority were useless, such as doom and rush) You'd have to sacrifice either your overpowerful GFs, your draw (which was needed to boost all your stats, your magic (which I guess isn't too bad because you hardly needed to use it except for meltdown and aura or the high level spells) or item (which was usually the first one to go anyway seeing as you only had three spare spaces). Aside from changing which magic was boosting your stats, there wasn't very much customisation to your characters. Aside from new GFs and higher stats, there wasn't that much progression at all in the game... I mean even levelling up become somewhat unnecessary seeing as how the enemies levelled up with you.

Now you can argue about the amazing cinematography, the great romantic love story, The deep plotline and twists, the simply genius ending cinematic (so wonderful and disorientating) and I'd agree that these are important in an RPG... but the gameplay is just terrible and it's the reason I don't replay it. Well, that and the enormous amount of menu management required which doesn't even reward you that much. It felt like you were always switching around GFs abilities (while not actually noticing that much of a difference, and when your doing it for 10-15 GFs at the same time it becomes tiresome) and always making sure the right magic was on the right junction. There are some excellent moments in FFVIII (The clash of the gardens may be the most epic moment from any final fantasy) but bland gameplay just spoils this title.

Let me save you the arguement of saying "But in Final Fantasy (whatever) you could get away with just using the attack button" because it just isn't as true as in FFVIII. FFVII's system was well designed and materia (with the positive and negative stat changes coupled with how it could be linked, but you might have had to sacrifice attack power for a weapon with the slots you needed ect ect ect) should have been an excellent system had the overall difficulty of the game not been too easy. Try playing it on low level, where materia management is very important and where you can't always just afford any materia/weapons you want, the game becomes very involved but rewarding.

Hell, even in FFIV you couldn't just use attack simply because your characters were defined by class, and if your playing the original version and not you nancy American Easytype then you'll realise that pressing attack alone won't work. As I mentioned before, each character in FFVI had different abilities, and depending on how involved you wanted to get (You could stick with the simplicity of Edgar's easily available tools, or go with Gau who really took a lot of hard work, or go somewhere in the middle with Mog's Dances) meant that if your the type of person like me who enjoys not seeing the same thing happen over and over again, you had that opportunity.

I'm sure a bunch of people will disagree with me here... I'm just waiting for Athrun to start his bitching (J/K... well sort of)... but I can't help but feel like I've actually got a point here...

I call that time and patience, since you have to figure that out by yourself through trial and error. The one you described to me before I didn't encounter in any of my playthroughs, and neither did any of my friends. It doesn't have anything to do with inteligence. I just didn't want to waste time to try out a lot of different combinations of transforming cards and other items and see what you get when I could just go on and play the game.


And most of the abilities in FFVII only served to make the game even more easy. I can close my eyes and just X2 - X4 cut my way through the game and the final boss. Or I could just get a few people's strongest Limit Breaks as early as on Disc 1 and one-shot KO every boss in the game. You can chain together things like Final Attack + Revive and there's hardly any way for you to die. (Yu Yevon boss fight anyone?) At least FF8 still kept things interesting in the end with sealing your abilities for the final boss fights.

But leveling up still had it's points since many bosses had both a "minimum" and "maximum" level. So even though they leveled up with you, they never leveled up past their maximum level. The only one who had neither was Omega Weapon, who was always Level 100.


Well I enjoyed the gameplay of FF8 quite a bit. Perhaps it's my fault that I don't like to take advantage of every exploit possible and then blame it on the game. But if I chose to get Omnislash on Disc 1, then it's my fault that every boss dies in one attack. Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it. If you see a gun on the table doesn't mean you need to pick it up and fire at someone, and then blame it on the gun because "it has that finction".


Actually you can get by just fine by only using attack. Check out some "No materia game" videos. You can basically play the game with your eyes closed as long as you know how to heal. I never once had any use for any particular attack magic in FF7. Basic attacks work great, from beginning to the end.


I'm not sure what you're saying here. You mean that because the characters had some abilities, it means you couldn't just settle for pressing the attack button? As far as I know, you could, and you were never forced to use any abilities at all if I recall correctly. Or why wouldn't pressing attack work? I might be forgetting something.


Well I guess we can't just leave all the bitching to you, now can we.
But I think the point you proved here is that your biass makes you blind to the flaws of the other games you mentioned. I'm sure you'll go out of your way to defend them and pretend those flaws don't exist. But at least I don't pretend that the flaws in FF8's don't exist, but I'm not a fan of taking advantage of exploits and then blaming the game for it.

No, but it certainly enhances them considerably. I've beaten FF 1, 2, 4, and 5 from the "Old FF days", and nothing about any of those games really stands out from the rest. The worlds and towns and sprites were all amazingly similar. At least when I think of FF8 and FF12 I can think of a real difference between them, but the old graphics and sprites tend to make the games flat.



I can see half of your point, but again, I'm gonna have to slightly disagree. No FF soundtracks are ALL completely amzing, but each one has their own amazing tracks. I don't think ANY of the old FF songs really sound amazing or beautiful. They all just sound like background or elevator music. Yeah they may have a catchy tune that u can hum, but I can think of a BUNCH of newer FF songs that i find much more appealing (not many from FF9), but definitely from FF7, 8, 10, and even some from 12.

Bless you, Atty. So many people seem to either fail to discover this, or choose to ignore it, but it's the point I always bring up whenever I see/hear people complaining about how "pointless" leveling is in FF VIII. >_< In several cases, no matter how much of any spells you have junctioned, not being up to level with the enemies will still prove to make things difficult (though I suppose some people may consider that a good thing), because many of the enemies will still have a minimum level that is much higher than the level you may be at, thus giving them significantly higher stats.


Just for the sake of bringing it up, I think the final boss fights were great, especially the ideas put behind the final one. Not only are your abilities sealed (unless you choose to unlock whichever ones), but KO'd characters cannot be revived (even if you're quick enough to act before they're expelled), GF's are almost always instantly killed (if you bother to use any), many of the bosses' strongest attacks still do pretty significant damage even with high stats (Hell's Judgment still frightens me, especially with how often it's used, haha)... Starting with Griever, your magic occasionally gets drained from you through Draw, and then in the final stage, your magic starts to be completely wiped out, not only disabling the use of those spells, but potentially decreasing stats significantly if the spells are junctioned.
...So, if you're not one to simply Lionheart your way through the final battles, I'd say there's a lot to be appreciated in them.


Now, of course, with all this said, I'm not going to say the game is flawless, nor is it perfect. To this day, I still enjoy the game through and through, even if it is easy nowadays. (Though I still haven't gotten around to taking down Omega Weapon... hrm... Maybe I should get around to doing that sometime.) Perhaps I'm just not bothered by many of its flaws as much as others are, but I personally find most of the game's features to work pretty well for it, and I generally try to take advantage of many of its features when I can. (Junctioning magic to different kinds of stats, intentionally limiting characters so as to give them sorts of "classes" or "jobs," using abilities offered by GF's, and especially taking advantage of Triple Triad and the Card Mod ability.) Could the given functions have been improved and utilized more effectively? Of course. I'd love to see a handful of tweaks put in the game, but with what's given, I think it's good enough. I'm not one to bash the company just because they failed to make things that extra bit better.

Sure, you may very well be able to plow through the game just mashing the attack command (though I can think of a number of instances where that wouldn't quite work well), but personally, I use what's provided in the game. If enemies are weak against certain elements, then I use the appropriate magic and/or GF's. On the other hand, if enemies use certain spells often, then I try to prepare for that by junctioning the appropriate magic to my elemental defenses. If enemies in a particular area inflict certain status effects often, or are easily affected by some, then I junction accordingly to whoever in my party has access to the status effect junctioning. It all just makes things more interesting, even if there is a more simple option available that will work fine. For example, I don't just abuse limit breaks on every little thing. I only use them if I feel that I have a good reason to. As Atty said, just 'cause it's there doesn't mean you have to use it.

Personally, I dig the storyline. I'm fascinated by the setting of the story. I like the characters. (Squall's still a favorite of mine.) I love the soundtrack. I enjoy experimenting with several of the features offered for use in (and out of) battle. I have plenty of fun playing the Triple Triad minigame (which can be very rewarding, even), and perhaps play it too much, even. Haha. Overall, I just thoroughly enjoy this game. It's all just a matter of opinion, of course. I can totally understand many of the points made against this game, but they're just not the kinds of things that sway my opinion so much, so I really don't mind such details. Hell, maybe I'm just some "mindless drone" who doesn't require much to please. Who knows. Personally, though, I think the positives outweigh the negatives in this game, and I still consider it one of my favorite games, especially out of the FF series.

</rambling>

Yes indeed. Those who believe you can simply level up to 100 or just ignore leveling up all together and still get the same challenge need to do their research a bit better.

Aside from Omega Weapon in the PlayStation version (he levels like any other optional boss in the PC version), who's always level 100, every boss's level works like this:

- Calculate 4/5 or 6/5 (randomly) of average party level, just like with most random enemies.
- If the calculated number is greater than the boss's max level, use the max level instead. Otherwise, use the calculated number. (Note: this applies to random enemies and optional bosses too: they just have 100 for a max level rather than anything less. Otherwise a level 100 party could meet level 80 and level 120 enemies.)

As for the table of max levels, see below. You'll note the only plot boss with a max level of 100 is Raijin in Balamb (first fight, without Fujin), for whatever reason.
Ifrit, 6
Biggs and Wedge, 10
Elvoret, 11
X-ATM092, 11
Fake President, 12
Gerogero, 12
Iguion, 19
Seifer, 20
Edea, 20
Biggs and Wedge, 22
BGH251F2, 22
NORG, NORG Pod, Left Orb, Right Orb, 27
BGH251F2, 28
Raijin, 100
Raijin and Fujin, 29
Cerberus (optional, but limited-time), 30
Seifer, 31
Seifer and Edea, 32
Abadon, 34
Propagator (all types), 42
Fujin and Raijin, 43
Mobile Type 8, Left Probe, Right Probe, 41
Seifer, 45
Adel and Rinoa, 46
Sorceress (all types), 45
Sphinxaur and Sphinxara, 50
Tri-Point, 51
Red Giant, 52
Gargantua, 54
Krysta, 55
Trauma and Droma, 56
Catoblepas, 57
Tiamat, 58
Final battle (every target in each stage), 65

Optional stuff:
Diablos, 100
Sacred, 75
Sacred and Minotaur, 75
Odin, 100
Tonberry King, 100
Jumbo Cactuar, 100
Bahamut, 100
Ultima Weapon, 100
Omega Weapon, 100

Unknown:
Fixed battles against "random" enemies (Granaldo/Raldo, Oilboyle, Ruby Dragon, various soldiers)


Which means that if you Level up to 60 before fighting Seifer, he will not level up to 60 with you. He will remain at Level 45 and you'll have an advantage in the battle.

I think everyone is completely missing my point... I'm not talking about the difficulty of the game (because as with most RPGs, the difficultly is mostly dictated by how much time into levelling the player puts into it) but more the ACTUAL gameplay and the options in battle. Yes you can get through FFVII by mashing the attack button but as you went along the game you had the opportunity to grow stronger and acquire more and more abilities. I've chosen FFVII as an example but it also goes for most decent RPGs in general and not just FFs.

FFVIII had very few options and in reality the only things you really needed was 'attack' and 'limit'. There were other options there such as 'mad rush' and 'doom' but none of them really had any point to them and no matter what the difficulty of the game you probably still wouldn't use them.

It's the system itself that I have a problem with, it made the game far too tedious. If you used magic your stats would decrease everytime, so you'd have to either not use magic or go through the annoying and boring process of drawing that magic again. Your GFs just took too long and I hate the fact that such an overpowered skill is so easily accessible with no real cost. Aside from that, all you had was your limits and 'attack' which in my books just isn't enough to keep me interested. The only other redeeming skill would be 'recover' which, much like the GFs, was over-powered with no cost (Every turn you could recover 9999 HP on a character...). I think my real complaint is that there just wasn't any balance in FFVIII, and that's what makes it such a tedious and boring game in my opinion.


Oh... please don't tell me you ACTUALLY wrote this? I think (and admit often) that FFVII (one of my favourite RPGs) is flawed to hell (such as what is the point of implementing the materia system, a complex yet easily manageable system if you are then going to then give the player over-powered materia such as enemy skill and 4 cut?). In fact most FFs have flaws in them and I find that as a series, it's overrated. I am not bias towards any game, thus why I've tried to use different examples from throughout the series. I take note of other people's arguments and I often actually change my views based upon them. You have never before said that FFVIII has flaws, and any flaws I point out you dismiss... so think before you go waving that 'bais' finger about.

Anyway, Chal has brought up a brilliant point that I had forgotten about and that's the junctioning magic to your Attack and defence. This is what the junctioning system should be used for and it works very well. It somewhat adds to strategy and makes it somewhat more interesting. However, I still don't believe that it is enough to redeem the gameplay in general. It's great if you know what boss is coming up and what their weaknesses and strengths are, but if you don't then it won't change much.

So levelling isn't completely unnessecary, but I still find the system of your enemies levelling along with you a weak one. In every other RPG I have come across, you move on and find more powerful enemies and you become more powerful. A testament to your growth is being able to defeat those enemies you once found difficult in just one slash. FFVIII had none of that. Levelling up just become unimportant... the numbers became bigger but didn't really change anything because so would the stats of all your enemies. Square obviously tried to rectify this by making it so only certain spells could be drawn at certain levels but this is not enough to save it in my opinion.

It's a shame... as I've said over and over again (which is why I'm confused as to why I've been accused of being bias) I loved the storyline and the cinematic. I can't rave enough about how amazing the clash of the gardens scene was (although I can't complain enough about how dull it turns out... after all that excitement and you end up in the other garden with little to no excitement until the boss battles at the end. The garden itself makes a very bland backdrop... *sigh*) and I have very fond memories about playing through it on my first time. I would love to play through it again now that I'm older to see if I can understand the story better but whenever I try I just get bored... I've even forced myself through a large chunk of the game but still lost interest.

Of course, this is all opinion and I wouldn't have it quoted as anything else...

What I meant was that you seemed to say that "you can get away with just pressing attack in FF8, but you can't in FF7 and FF6", which is something I just couldn't see myself.
I think that's what you said above. At least I don't know how to read your post any differently.




Well when you knock FF8 for being that way and then don't even concider that it's the same for those other games I just thought it sounded bias, because it made me wonder how you'd miss something that's been pretty obvious in the majority of FF games.


Hmm, what did I dismiss? I only remember saying that I don't think you should take advantage of flaws and blame the game for it. I've always said that, for any game. I don't think I said the flaws weren't there. I also remember telling you that Ultimecia's level was set on 65 even when my party was 100, which you told me was not true and that bosses levels always match the characters. And I ended up taking your word for it since you almost convinced me that I had remembered wrong. I also remember thinking that one particular of these exploits was a mistake made by the developers just because it didn't make any sense to me, and I think that's as big as a flaw can get.


What is the point of beating an enemy with one hit and recieve 1 EXP for the ordeal? I've never found much pleasure in doing that. As a matter of fact, if enemies are that weak you'd usually rather avoid them in favor of enemies that still give you somewhat of a challenge, or progressing with the game without unneccesary interuptions.
Tell me that you don't turn enemy encounter to OFF in games that allow it when you run through an old section of the worlds map? I know I did all the time in Wild Arms 5 and .hack//G.U. vol 3, my two most recent rpg's. Because nothing makes you more happy than the battle screen suddenly flashing by and the battle music starts playing and you have to wait for the battle to load up, and then you see in front of you four bunnies with a total of 16 HP combined, and after four turns when you have killed each one of them and hear the victory tune, you're brought to the battle stats screen where you'll see the impressive amount of EXP and money roll in for the effort.

......
I feel like I just wasted a minute of my life for nothing, just because the enemies were so useless and I didn't even get anything out of it.

What's wrong with enemies still giving you a challenge and decent EXP? Why is that such an atrocity for FF8, but 1 hit KO'ing them and recieving zero exp a great point for FF7?

Either way I prefer getting the main challenge from bosses. Regular enemies act as a break from the exploring gameplay to the combative one, and also to contribute to your characters growth. And they lose that function when you can just kill them with one hit. Then they just become a nuisance. So I don't mind keeping enemies at what they do best, and recieving the real challenges from the bosses. Especially at the end of the game, loosing all your abilities made some of those boss fights very tricky to get through. And FF games have always lacked challenging final bosses, but I thought that was a very interesting idea to make thinsg more challenging.

Fixed. Seriously console RPG's are generally quite exploitable. Whether it strictly be over leveling, or achieving something early.

True, but you can also make them challenging by setting limits or goals for your self. Say "I'm not going to face the final boss of whatever this game is unless I'm below level 50." Do things that make it challenging and you may have more fun if that's what you appreciate. Yes, you can just overlevel or get cheap moves (KOTResque), but try doing it without doing those. Stopping your leveling up is easy enough - just run from battles. Use parties of characters you might not normally use. Use weapons you might not ordinarily want to use, just to see if you can do it.

I agree if you follow the beaten path then console RPG's are pretty simple. But there are ways to MAKE it difficult.

##### that.

I never noticed the bosses had a lv-limit!

I always thought it was supposed to be like the game always would have a normal-setting to play through!

for example. the difference between you and your enemy is always the same, you just playing in a higher league the higher the lv you are!

the only thing that gives you the advantage over the "same lv monster" is your GF.

is it wrong to think so?

...Okay, well I have to fix something I was about to say. I could've sworn common enemies had level caps as well, but after looking around online a little, it doesn't seem that way. *shrug* Anyway, even though enemies level up with you, they still remain strong/weak according to their type.

For example, likely the first monster you encounter in the game, the Bite Bug. At level 1, it has 114 HP. Probably dies in one hit at that point of the game anyway; possibly two. At level 100, it has 2510 HP. Honestly, if you're not doing at least that much damage in one swing by level 100, then something's wrong. Pay attention to the fact that, all the way up to level 100, these Bite Bugs consistently reward you with 15 EXP apiece. Each level-up requires 1000 EXP in this game, rather than increasing the amount required for each level. This said, the Bite Bug will remain about the same difficulty (or lack thereof) throughout the game, and you will be rewarded with the same (crappy) kind of experience the whole time.

On the other hand, take one of the more powerful monsters in the game, the Behemoth. At level 1, the Behemoth has 35,263 HP and (since it's a bigger deal for this kind of monster) 64 Strength. At level 1, this is a rather challenging enemy, and you're rewarded for defeating such a beast with a whopping 200 EXP. (That, of course, means that killing five gives you a level-up.) At level 100, the Behemoth has 91,000 HP and 250 Strength (not to mention more powerful abilities). This way, even at level 100, the Behemoth is still a rather powerful enemy, so you're still given a challenge in order to obtain that 200 EXP.

I suppose it's not all that different, but it's a different way of leveling up in a game. Slightly different than the norm, anyway. It may even be better in some ways. For one, it keeps common encounters from being too horribly weak, so they may still be worth fighting. For stronger enemies, it makes sure that you have to put up a decent fight in order to obtain greater rewards. This way, through simple leveling, you won't find easy ways to obtain larger amounts of EXP from the more powerful enemies. In order to do this kind of thing, you're required to utilize the Junction System. I suppose it's meant to present a sort of challenge in the leveling process. So, y'know, the leveling process remains somewhat of a challenging process, in order to reach that minimum requirement/suggestion for the next boss battle or the like. However, at the same time, it will be (more) difficult to reach a level that will make the boss/enemy too easy, due to their leveling with you (to an extent).
Of course, this way of leveling could have its flaws as well. After all that explanation, I'm not sure I care to think about the flaws at the moment, though, lol. I won't doubt they're there, though.

So, does that all make sense? (If not, I'm not sure I can explain it much better. )

Then what exactly do you expect? If you don't take steps to make a game difficult (which means generally just NOT doing stuff - like getting the best weapons or leveling up), of course it will be easy...

Man I can say a lot abou Final Fantasy VIII. It is one of my favorite Final Fantasies. It is the FF that introduced me to the series - complements of OPM - and since then I've been hooked on the serise. I liked the game. Yeah I agree that most characters didn't have the best development but they weren't half bad. At least they have a past un like other games I will refrain from mentioning *cough*FFXII*cough* LOL.