SO^_^ hello all a pleasure to meet you I'm nixxy and I've been thinking alot about various things like how precisely do rune cannons work and how are they created,as well rune magic uniting(which I want to discuss seriously),and a few other things I have several Jeane Theories--Revolving around her either being a Jinn or considering she's a EXCELLENT runemistress having installed several dozen less unique runes onto herself i.e. the Advanced Elemental Runes--Thunder,Rage,Flowing,Mother Earth,and Cyclone Runes as well as her Charm Rune Which in my Runemistress Theory she uses to conceal the other runes,I also have to mention the possibility that jeane is able to embed a rune directly into her soul,but I will mention more of my thoughts and opinions on various subjects on monday the 29th,2007 for I have to vanish Tee Hee Hee....

Nixxy's Contents

These will be the topics I work towards these are my personal beliefs so don't shred them impolitely if you can disapprove any of the actual mechanics like the ones discussed in my essay concerning the ammunition of rune cannons,or wish to provide a counter argument to my fact with direct quotes from the games please make the quotes as RELEVANT and UPDATED as possible,draw from the later suikoden games please rather than the formers,though there isn't a blanket ban on drawing from the formers here,just don't expect me to acknowledge the accuracy before I check it out meself.

Rune Shell Ammunition-Artificial manufacture Essay
Theory-Sword and Shield,and the True Runes before The conclusion of the war of the brothers.

**more to come as I think it up**

Konami haven't spilled any beans about Jeane, so all we can do is assume and guess, however it won't bring you any closer to Jeane's true identity.
So far, only 1 person knows Jeane's true identity and that is the dog from Suikoden III.

Rune uniting is, as far as I know possible, because the runes allow it. Water and Fire don't go together, so the runes won't allow you a combined spell, but this is not the same, with for example Fire and Lightning.
Remember, the Runes are not just Crystals, they actually are able to choose, this was made obvious in Suikoden IV with the Rune of Punishment.

Yeah, no materia here boys, runes are sencient. As for rune cannons, I thought they were explained fine enough in Suikoden Tactics.

Ok first things first I didn't adequately explain what I meant
I will now give you a short essay I wrote on one thing(which is a part of another essay which I probably will eventually write) that I originally mentioned in the first post of this topic.

here goes



Rune Shell Ammunition Essay

The Runeshell ammuntion used for rune cannons was naturally produced by a gigantic tree most likely from the world of emptiness but in my opinion probably not due to how beautiful the tree is and how more than anything Graham Cray seemed to be manipulating/controlling it somehow(signified to me from his transformation into the tree at the end of Suikoden IV),now the rune shells are this tree's seeds.

Now what I meant to address regarding the rune cannons was the artificial method I believe a skilled magician would use to create a magical artifact;mind you the process contained within this essay is simply for the runeshell.

-Creating A Runeshell-

Any durable material can be used to a varying degree of efficiency which depends on the physical strength of the material as well as it's capacity to contain pure magical energy, one example is a Silver sphere as compared to a Iron sphere,the Iron sphere has a stronger physical structure while the Silver sphere has a higher magical capacity.

Essentially the creation of the constructed runeshell depends on Physical structure and Rune Affinity,the former and the latter influencing the magic capacity of the complete runeshell.
Rune affinity is determined by the material used,as certain materials have a natural connection to certain runes,take the dawn rune or the thunder rune and the flowing rune (and the lesser water and lightning runes)both in my opinion would be compatible with using a pearl or silver as the base physical material for a runeshell than say using wood or limestone. (also a skilled earth rune user I believe to be able to shape stone/metal but not a pearl)

This Magical capacity determines how much energy from a compatible rune can be safely funneled into the runeshell,either in advance by a much stronger magician like say Jeane or Zerase versus Pablo (Pablo being a lesser magic user)the energy being safely stored in the shell just waiting until a lesser magician sets off the energy in the runeshell as its fired,if rune energy is stored in a shell in this manner the energy has a certain type so for example Pablo has a water rune equipped he cannot set off runeshell containing energy from the rune of punishment the only one who can is someone who bears the rune of punishment or the rune of condemnation,or instead of a strong magician like Jeane providing the magical force for the shell,and a lesser magician triggering it with a small burst of power from their own rune,Pablo(our sample lesser magician) provides it at the moment slightly before the cannon fires the shell.

Now I'm getting tired but suffice it to say the actual rune cannon would be of a special construction able to withstand the energy release from the runeshell as it is expelled from the cannon,runes=wells and rune energy=water and it is this energy that lends the runeshell power in the as above described procedure.

To Pesmerga:only the True Runes are not just crystals,other runes for example the fire and rage runes do not show any sentience to my knowledge,if I am wrong you may correct me ok?I should have done this earlier but I was busy and a slight bit lazy preferring to play the games rather then explaining the laws of magical construction per runeshells lol...... now adieu my fellow enthusiasts^_^

Secondly I want to state my opinion of things at the end of suikoden four when you read ted's star of destiny profile;it says something about him meeting a very special friend 150 years later,and if any of you have played suikoden 5 you will either remember or if you own V you can help verify this for those who doubt,but on Nirva island your very first time there one of the people on the dock will say something about lino en kuldes ruling obel during the island liberation war 150 years ago(here is the dock worker's exact quote)
"Lino en kuldes was the king of obel during the island libration war 150 years ago,he is a most revered hero.He is responsible for the formation of the Island Nations Federation,the current flagship is the fifth or sixth one to be named the lino en kuldes in honor of obel's king."

now if this is true on both counts pesmerga my friend please verify the exact quotes if you can because I don't have suikoden five yet I'm still renting it when i wanna play it.

This special friend of Ted's is our dear Lan Mcdohl;lan being the name I credit to the hero of the first suikoden in my gameplay of it.

the evidence is given for this in that in Suikoden,Ted basically refers to Lan as his one true friend.

as for the dock worker of nirva island's statement why would Konami reference it in the game if they didn't intend to imply that Suikoden one and Suikoden five occur in very close proximity to each other chronologically,close as in months instead of the seven to eight years that everyone else seems to believe.

I'm sure all those can say what I mean I'm very interested to here what the suiko-fan population think of this theory of mine,though I want it to gain popularity cause I strongly view it to be true.

well thanks for listening gang^_^

I found a odd theory recently,regarding viki one that has a few errors in my opinion,I will now post the flaws of that particular theory.


Supreme_chi the poster,believes that viki was born after the events in suikoden III,I have no opinion about this being true or false,but its his theory that when little viki meets Hugo who is the flame champion and gives them "back" the blinking mirror,he believes that Hugo at some point in his life after the Elemental Runewar was over had eventually found the original mirror during his travels and given it to viki,in his mind the only way that this could have happened was for hugo to meet Little Viki after the end of suikoden three.

In short the following words between the two smilies is Supreme_Chi's theory in a nutshell
I will label both his theory and my corresponding arguments like so TA)His theory,MA)My argument.



Close. Supreme_Chi's Viki Timeline:

TA)After the events of Suikoden III - Viki is born. She receives the Blinking Mirror from the Flame Champion. Then, while young, she makes a mistake and blinks away, to...

MA)I believe this is false,I will explain in MA2.

TA2)During Suikoden III - Young Viki blinks in and sees the Flame Champ. She then "gives back" (her own words) the blinking mirror. She also notices that there is an older Viki, and that this Viki is rather dense. I forget her exact words, but they imply that she figures out that the older Viki is her future self, and that she isn't particularly thrilled by the fact (would you be?). After the war is over, Young Viki once again makes a mistake and blinks off.

MA2)I believe the ORIGINAL flame champion(in my gameplay the original bears the name Nrixa) gave her the blinking mirror,and her statement about giving it back is reference not to hugo but to his status as the flame champion's successor.

TA3)Suikoden I - Viki finally appears after years of randomly blinking through time and space (note that she is significantly older than Younger Viki). All of this blinking left her without any kind of foothold and led to her becoming confused and scatterbrained. After the war she sneezes and finds herself in...

MA3)Don't particularly care about this at the moment cause it's not really relevant to my argument that the flame champion who in my gameplay I refer to as Nrixa gave little viki the blinking mirror.

TA4)Suikoden II - Viki has blinked in directly from Toran, she even mentions that she was supposed to be at the dinner. Without anywhere else to go, she heads to Riou's castle. After the war, she sneezes and finds herself in...

MA4)again don't particularly have an opinion on the whole ditzy factor of Big Viki.

TA5)Suikoden III- Viki blinks in, like before, when she was supposed to be at a dinner. Because, as I mentioned, all the blinking made her confused, she didn't recognize anyone like she did when she appeared as Young Viki. Viki is then taken to Mountain Path where she runs into Young Viki and doesn't recognize her as herself! Like I said, she's confused and scatterbrained and the more she accidently blinks the more confused she becomes.

MA5)yet again don't particularly have an opinion on the whole ditzy factor of Big Viki.



That's his theory in a nutshell,and my argument in a nutshell,he gave some evidence in the first post(which can be found here--- if you desire to read the whole thing....
http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopi...?f=20&t=426
,and the evidence that Viki gets more confused as she blinks can be seen by comparing Viki in all three games. She's always confused, but she definitely becomes more confused as the series progresses.

I don't remember seeing Cray "transform" into the tree. If I recall correct, the tree is already there, woken up by Cray to attack the party.
After the battle is over, he is seen talking to Silverburg.



All runes are descendants of Shield and Sword, so it is very unlikely that the Fire and Water Rune are simply crystals.
In Suikoden IV it is proven that two opposing elemental Runes do not go together, so taking in account that True Runes have the power to chose the master, normal lower ranked Runes I believe they have a "relationship" towards other Runes, as in not being 'fond' of their counterparts, such as Water and Fire.




Correct, Suikoden I takes place 150 years after Suikoden IV and the person Ted talks about is indeed Tir McDohl.



This is another reference of Konami. There is only 1 Lino En Kuldes that ruled the Islands, so you can't go wrong with that.



This entire theory is based upon 1 line. I am sorry, but this theory is based upon a line that is taken way out of proportion.
Remember, the Blinking Mirror was in possession of Hellion in Suikoden I and not Viki, I assume that Viki got the Blinking Mirror from Hellion.

About the rune cannons... Well, my memory fails me, so all I can really do is give some quotes from Suikosource which should help figure things out a little. (If you haven't already read them, that is.)


^{(As far as I can tell, this may have eventually led to the "development" of the Pale/Blue Gate Rune, which I assume is based on the True Rune, the Gate Rune. Notice that the Pale/Blue Gate Rune did not exist [or at least wasn't available to the player] during Suikoden IV or Tactics/Rhapsodia, but it exists in V and onward, several decades after the events of IV and Tactics/Rhapsodia. This is just my theory, though; nothing confirmed, as far as I know.)}

By the way, the Giant Tree was sold to the Kooluk Empire at some point, which explains why Graham Cray had access to it at the end of Suikoden IV.



Pes:
Are you sure that all of the runes are direct "descendants" of the True Runes? I was always under the impression that the weaker ones (like the base elementals: Fire, Water, etc., and perhaps the improved ones as well: Rage, Flowing, etc.) were manufactured (somehow). Hence, they're available in bulk in shops all over. I figure the less-than-True Runes basically served as a basis for most of the other runes in the world. (My theory on the Pale/Blue Gate Rune goes along with this. Although, I guess that theory also assumes that the powers of the Gate Rune are known to others, so even I kind of question the validity of it.)
*shrug* I dunno. For argument's sake, I guess. Heh. If it's been confirmed that all of the runes are direct descendants, could you quote it from somewhere for me, or something? Personally, I haven't seen the relation really mentioned anywhere.

About Jeane, You know. In every Suiko series, she possessed a lightning rune with her. I'm suspecting her to be a (true bearer of a lightning rune) not sure if there is such true rune though. But she might not be human(might because I'm still not sure), so I am thinking that she might be some sort of dark rune mistress that falsely created a fake true lightning rune???

Especially in Suiko II's Tactic battle. Her lightning is forever powerful and never fails to destroy the enemy. Even Luca Blight's unit.

Not too sure about it though.



It is possible that true runes are inheritable from crystals though. Remember when Jowy and Riou receive the runes of beginnings? Both of them place one hand on the crystal ball, while the other was shone by the light of the rune stone on the wall. Not sure if every of them are the same though.

Thanks Dan for typing this for me.

Lance.

27 True Runes
In the beginning, there was "darkness."
Then, the "darkness" shed a "tear."
From that "tear," the brothers Sword and Shield were born.
Shield claimed it could defend against any attack.
Sword claimed it could slice through anything.
The brothers began a legendary battle.
At the end, both Sword and Shield shattered.
Sword became the sky, Shield became the earth, and the sparks from the battle became the stars.
As for the jewels, they fell to the ground and became the True Runes--The runes that all other runes were born from.

From what I understood was that the smaller runes came from the bigger ones. Could be wrong, but that is what I understood from it.

To Dookie, there is the True Lightning Rune of course, but it would mean that there would be 2 in Suikoden III, as Geddoe had it in Suikoden III.

Oh right, Geddoe. >.< How could I forget that.

Then... will it be possible that, Jeane is a incarnation of the True Lightning rune then(Maybe a fragment of it?) Which means its like... she is the true lightning rune itself(like the night rune, A.K.A Star Dragon Sword) god I still hate that name. Accept, that she granted the True lightning bearers the abilities then? But who knows.

Yeah, I know its a little far fetched. But yeah...

I don't really think Jeane would be some kind of demon that seduces man to leech their life and energy of them Lol. Though I've heard rumours. xD



Oh... as for the "Big ditsy Viki" crap, in my on opinion, I think is that, Viki just gets confused and don't recognised people because each of her accidental blinks, she was transported to another time line and place. Resulting her in not to be able to recognise anyone. It is also possible that due to her occasional blinking, causes her to undergo a major distortion of time phrase, which causes both her memories to be distorted(though this theory not true because she still retain her memories in SII, she talks in her sleep).

Thats just my opinion anyways.


Thanks Dan for typing this for me.

Lance.

Well, she could be a rune on her own, such as the Star Dragon Sword (a.k.a. Night Rune) made a distance between him and the Sun Rune, which eventually lead to Zerase and her claim being related to the Night Rune and having the Star Rune herself.
As far as appearances go, only the dog knows her true identity and the turtle in Suikoden V knows something else about her as well, he said he sensed someone 'old'.

For Viki, I think people look into too much. In my opinion she just has the Blinking Rune and time travels by sneezing.
I don't recall anything being said about Young Viki being born in that timeline of Suikoden III.
Besides, she's just ditsy. A lot of people can be ditsy.

aye aye aye looks like everyone has been busy with my thread lol there is alot of info to process but I will dutifully attempt it lol

1)As to Cray transforming into the tree I concede that victory to you pesmerga.

2)All runes are NOT descendants of Shield and Sword,but they do have a relationship towards other runes,but lower runes such as the Fire and Rage rune do NOT have the power to refuse to be wielded alongside each other....hence why a bearer can equip both a Flowing and Rage rune but not mix their magics...

About the True Runes being descended from the brothers sword and shield,Pesmerga is wrong,here's why...the jewels in the legend adorned the brothers sword and shield,adorn means to wear so likely the two brothers used the true runes as weapons against the other,but found themselves equally matched since they both possessed the opposite runes to the ones that the other held,Darkness probably holds the last rune since I believe each brother held 13 true runes in their war,plus true runes are not gods of suikoden,the gods would be Darkness,Sword and Shield...
who knows why the true runes seek men of power but maybe cause I think after the brothers war they(the brothers sword and shield) were shattered and turned into the sky and earth(but left with just enough strength to manipulate the runes behind the shadows) if i remember right,perhaps they seek the true runes they once held to regain their power?

but lets say that it is possible that the True Runes dislike being used this way and started to choose their own master?
now isn't that an intriguing notion,that the weakened sword and shield lost control of the true runes they each held?
so the true runes free of their dictating bearers,emerged as a shaping influence on the world,acting through masters of their own choosing?


3(Correct, Suikoden I takes place 150 years after Suikoden IV and the person Ted talks about is indeed Tir McDohl.

3A( Pesmerga you missed my point entirely if 150 years ago from suikoden V Lino En Kuldes ruled obel and 150 years after suikoden IV Ted met Lan Mcdohl(see my earlier posts if you lack the processing power to work that out) then both suikoden One and suikoden V occur within the same time period,being apart simply a matter of months rather than the seven to eight years that is part of the popular belief of the suikoden timeline.

P.s. I also added the exact quote of the dock worker to the original post about this so look there for verification.

3B)Pesmerga:"This is another reference of Konami. There is only 1 Lino En Kuldes that ruled the Islands, so you can't go wrong with that."

Nixxy:"thank you for now agreeing with me heh heh heh"

4)Pesmerga:"This entire theory is based upon 1 line. I am sorry, but this theory is based upon a line that is taken way out of proportion,Remember, the Blinking Mirror was in possession of Hellion in Suikoden I and not Viki, I assume that Viki got the Blinking Mirror from Hellion."

Nixxy:"I am fairly certain that since viki had the mirror in suikoden 4,that TIME doesn't matter to viki(as we well know) so just cause hellion had it in one that doesn't mean that is who viki received it from originally,but I digress simply because this is like impossible to actually prove the origins of the blinking mirror with the info we have now."

1) Nixxy:"yes but Chalryn what people aren't understanding is that I know how the rune cannons were created.
what I posted was how someone could develop an artificial rune ammunition shell,UNLIKE warlock's whose cannons were naturally occuring as he summoned them from another world where they already existed then as you state he closed the eyes of the rune cannon-eye fish."

2) Quote--Suikosource--Simeon's Bio
However, given an Alger Doll and a Wizened Arm,he is finally able to conduct an experiment that reveals the true nature of the Evil Eye's - they create a temporary portal to the World of Emptiness, in which humans cannot exist - and are thus turned into fish monsters, an irreversible process.

Chalryn:**"As far as I can tell, this may have eventually led to the "development" of the Pale/Blue Gate Rune, which I assume is based on the True Rune, the Gate Rune. Notice that the Pale/Blue Gate Rune did not exist [or at least wasn't available to the player] during Suikoden IV or Tactics/Rhapsodia, but it exists in V and onward, several decades after the events of IV and Tactics/Rhapsodia. This is just my theory, though; nothing confirmed, as far as I know.

By the way, the Giant Tree was sold to the Kooluk Empire at some point, which explains why Graham Cray had access to it at the end of Suikoden IV."**

2A) I like this chalryn good thinking *smiles at you* and yes I know about the tree being sold to kooluk I just forgot the exact circumstances cause I haven't played IV in a while lol.

3) Chalryn"Are you sure that all of the runes are direct "descendants" of the True Runes? I was always under the impression that the weaker ones (like the base elementals: Fire, Water, etc., and perhaps the improved ones as well: Rage, Flowing, etc.) were manufactured (somehow). Hence, they're available in bulk in shops all over. I figure the less-than-True Runes basically served as a basis for most of the other runes in the world. (My theory on the Pale/Blue Gate Rune goes along with this. Although, I guess that theory also assumes that the powers of the Gate Rune are known to others, so even I kind of question the validity of it.)
*shrug* I dunno. For argument's sake, I guess. Heh. If it's been confirmed that all of the runes are direct descendants, could you quote it from somewhere for me, or something? Personally, I haven't seen the relation really mentioned anywhere."

3A) I am wondering when did pesmerga say that all runes are descendants of the true runes,unless i've missed something he posted he's only stated that runes are directly descended from the brothers sword and shield which I think I proved to be inaccurate. but even if he did we wouldn't know if its true,for all we know lesser runes could be hatched from an egg lol *playful laugh* but the Notable lesser runes are so far only the rage,flowing,mother earth,thunder,cyclone as well as the basic wind,earth,lightning,fire,water,I think Simeon's research could have led to the process to birth the pale gate and the blue gate runes,but it would be a complicated process to explain how I would go about the research and application which led to the birth of those runes;if someone wants me to think on this let me know cause I don't wanna put all that work into writing the essay--"The birth of the lesser runes of the gate related to the world of emptiness"

lol but yeah hope everyone is having a good time.
tata luvs^_^

Lol, the creation theory is a direct quote from Suikoden II. It is written in one of the books and if that book said, "As for the jewels, they fell to the ground and became the True Runes--The runes that all other runes were born from," then it is clearly obvious that all the others Runes are decendants from Sword and Shield. Surely they do not have the same strength, but they do have the power to ignore each other and refuse to work together, as in combining their powers. Hence there is no combination possible with Fire and Water, unite wise.



It is an official quote from the game, I fail to see the reason as to why that is wrong.



There is no mention about runes being used at all. The story tells about Sword and Shield battling.
Shield and Sword claimed this:

Shield claimed it could defend against any attack.
Sword claimed it could slice through anything.

Now, what happens when you have unstoppable force clash with an unmovable object? Most likely a huge explosion.
Anyway, as they both defeated each other, as the story tells, Sword and Shield became the sky and earth and the sparks from the battle became the 27 True Runes, the runes that all other runes were born from.
This is inside one of the books inside Suikoden II.

The True Runes are also not gods, they are the balance of life. If you take one True Rune out, the world could become in danger, as in, one side might be able to take all the power in the world.

Darkness is, as far I believe no god. I simply believe that darkness equals 'outer space', if we compare the theory with the Bible, as they are similar.

Another thing to mention here is that the True Runes posess amazing power. For example the Rune of Punishment showed that he was capable of choosing a new master, after the other died.
The Soul Eater was constantly killing people around its master and showed clear signs of rejection, as he rejected Windy when she summoned him. The Blue Moon Rune clearly recognised Sierra, as when Sierra summoned the Blue Moon Rune, it listened.
The True Runes do not seek people that embody power, the Runes seek people that are worthy and sometimes not even people, as the Beast Rune chose to go to a castle and the Night Rune chose to transform itself in a sword.

You also made the claim that Sword and Shield held the True Runes themselves, which is contradicting to the creation theory, as that piece of text said that the True Runes were created from the sparks of their battles.
This to me sounds that Sword and Shield are two entities that battled to see who the stronger was, the result was that both got defeated.
Now it is suggested that Pesmerga and Yuber are Sword and Shield, but that is pure speculation.



True Runes always choose their master. It is not like they can be controlled easily. The Soul Eater never unlocked its true power, untill the very end of the game when it took Ted and ignored Windy.
True Runes have their own will and their curse could even take over their master, so that they could do their own thing and make their master simply into a vessel.



It is confirmed that Suikoden V takes place 6 universe years before Suikoden I. Suikoden IV takes approximately 150 years before Suikoden I.
You can't take that number as an exact number of course.



I am fearly certain that there was not the Blinking Mirror, but a Glowing Hand Mirror.
In Suikoden I you got the Blinking Mirror from Hellion, who had it in a chest, which she presented to you when you recruited her.

1) Lance:**"About Jeane, You know. In every Suiko series, she possessed a lightning rune with her. I'm suspecting her to be a (true bearer of a lightning rune) not sure if there is such true rune though. But she might not be human(might because I'm still not sure), so I am thinking that she might be some sort of dark rune mistress that falsely created a fake true lightning rune???

Especially in Suiko II's Tactic battle. Her lightning is forever powerful and never fails to destroy the enemy. Even Luca Blight's unit.

Not too sure about it though."**

1A) Nixxy:"It is impossible(or strongly unlikely) for her to possess that rune cause in suikoden three geddoe possesses the true lightning rune and she makes an appearance in that game,simply put a true rune(unless it takes on a physical form like Star Dragon Sword) won't recognize more than one rightful bearer at a time,Star Dragon Sword for example recognizes Viktor and Edge but also Zerase if you recall her response to Sialeeds possessing the Twilight rune,Zerase says if she had the sword of the night or something pretty close to that she could easily overpower Sialeeds's Twilight rune,Edge is holding Star Dragon Sword for someone since it doesn't mention who that someone is,it could easily be Viktor or Zerase or possibly both...which is my preferred opinion that the Star Dragon Sword is fond of certain individuals and even when not present shares it's power with them to a degree hence Zerase's Star Rune bestowed upon her by Star Dragon Sword,probably the same with viktor,or how when Neclord stole Sierra Mikain's Blue Moon Rune it still recognized her just as the Soul Eater Recognized Ted even though Lan Mcdohl possessed it when the two met in the crystal valley in suikoden one."


2) Pesmerga:**"All runes are descendants of Shield and Sword, so it is very unlikely that the Fire and Water Rune are simply crystals.
In Suikoden IV it is proven that two opposing elemental Runes do not go together, so taking in account that True Runes have the power to chose the master, normal lower ranked Runes I believe they have a "relationship" towards other Runes, as in not being 'fond' of their counterparts, such as Water and Fire."**


2A) Lance:**"It is possible that true runes are inheritable from crystals though. Remember when Jowy and Riou receive the runes of beginnings? Both of them place one hand on the crystal ball, while the other was shone by the light of the rune stone on the wall. Not sure if every of them are the same though.

Thanks Dan for typing this for me.

Lance."**

2B) Nixxy:"hmm delve into a bit more what you mean by true runes inheritable from crystals? like the seals used to contain the true elemental runes of three?cause I haven't played two unfortunately I've only played one,Three,Four,Five,and a bit of tactics/rhapsodia."

Oh sweet mother earth rune lol

QUOTE(Nixxy @ Jan 25 2008, 12:38 AM)
2)All runes are NOT descendants of Shield and Sword,but they do have a relationship towards other runes,but lower runes such as the Fire and Rage rune do NOT have the power to refuse to be wielded alongside each other....hence why a bearer can equip both a Flowing and Rage rune but not mix their magics...


1) Lol, the creation theory is a direct quote from Suikoden II. It is written in one of the books and if that book said, "As for the jewels, they fell to the ground and became the True Runes--The runes that all other runes were born from," then it is clearly obvious that all the others Runes are decendants from Sword and Shield. Surely they do not have the same strength, but they do have the power to ignore each other and refuse to work together, as in combining their powers. Hence there is no combination possible with Fire and Water, unite wise.

1A) Take into context that the sources I am drawing from is suikoden Five,it is in one of the books there,that it mentions the word Adorned or so I believe,but I know that it is a fact I'll provide actual source quote sometime when I have access to five again.

but here consider this

1B) Pesmerga:"Now, what happens when you have unstoppable force clash with an unmovable object? Most likely a huge explosion.
Anyway, as they both defeated each other, as the story tells, Sword and Shield became the sky and earth and the sparks from the battle became the 27 True Runes, the runes that all other runes were born from.
This is inside one of the books inside Suikoden II."

Nixxy:"you have it wrong or perhaps konami did but the sparks from the battle became the stars not the 27 true runes--
cross-reference with books from the other suikodens besides two you should notice that they all don't read exactly the same. so most likely if the one in two states that the sparks became runes its a typo on konami's part."




2) Pesmerga:"It is an official quote from the game, I fail to see the reason as to why that is wrong."

Nixxy:"because there is more than one game and all have the books pertaining to the creation of the world and the sparks from the battle became the stars according at least to suikoden V's book."


3) Pesmerga:"The True Runes are also not gods,they are the balance of life. If you take one True Rune out, the world could become in danger, as in, one side might be able to take all the power in the world."

Nixxy: "yes thats my point I just wanted to clarify on my thread that despite wikipedia's ignorance the true runes are not deities."

4)Pesmerga:"Darkness is, as far I believe no god. I simply believe that darkness equals 'outer space', if we compare the theory with the Bible, as they are similar."

Nixxy:"the suikoden universe has no similarities to the bible,hello the suikoden universe is very paganistic/heretical in reference to what would pass as the christian religion,which doesn't exist in any of the suikodens so far,the only thing even remotely close to christianity or any religion for that matter would be the bishop-rulers of holy harmonia and they worship the runes from what I can gather."

5) Pesmerga:"Another thing to mention here is that the True Runes posess amazing power. For example the Rune of Punishment showed that he was capable of choosing a new master, after the other died.
The Soul Eater was constantly killing people around its master and showed clear signs of rejection, as he rejected Windy when she summoned him. The Blue Moon Rune clearly recognised Sierra, as when Sierra summoned the Blue Moon Rune, it listened.
The True Runes do not seek people that embody power, the Runes seek people that are worthy and sometimes not even people, as the Beast Rune chose to go to a castle and the Night Rune chose to transform itself in a sword."

5A)explain this relevance to my post lol,true runes do seek men of power according to Lino en Kuldes just prior to the second use of the rune of punishment on Obel Island.

6) You also made the claim that Sword and Shield held the True Runes themselves, which is contradicting to the creation theory, as that piece of text said that the True Runes were created from the sparks of their battles.
This to me sounds that Sword and Shield are two entities that battled to see who the stronger was, the result was that both got defeated.
Now it is suggested that Pesmerga and Yuber are Sword and Shield, but that is pure speculation.

6A) Nixxy:"it's not contradictory according to Suikoden V's books and Pesmerga and Yuber COULD be the "fallen angel" versions of sword and shield,but every theory is speculation till it gains popularity,one of them being bitter at the defeat blaming the True Runes,hence why Yuber hates them and the other seeking vengeance,evidenced by Pesmerga chasing Yuber."



7) Nixxy:"but lets say that it is possible that the True Runes dislike being used this way and started to choose their own master?
now isn't that an intriguing notion,that the weakened sword and shield lost control of the true runes they each held?
so the true runes free of their dictating bearers,emerged as a shaping influence on the world,acting through masters of their own choosing?"


7A) Pesmerga:"True Runes always choose their master. It is not like they can be controlled easily. The Soul Eater never unlocked its true power, untill the very end of the game when it took Ted and ignored Windy.
True Runes have their own will and their curse could even take over their master, so that they could do their own thing and make their master simply into a vessel."

7B) well duh my dear pesmerga but that's for humans who possess the True Runes,I don't think that sword and shield were ordinary humans,and when a normal person bears a rune another way to put it is that the rune adorns their body.


8)Nixxy's Note--3,and 3A and 3B are part of this one now. now referred to as 8A,8B,8C and the addendums 8D and 8E.

8A:Pesmerga:"Correct, Suikoden I takes place 150 years after Suikoden IV and the person Ted talks about is indeed Tir McDohl."

8B: Pesmerga you missed my point entirely if 150 years ago from suikoden V Lino En Kuldes ruled obel and 150 years after suikoden IV Ted met Lan Mcdohl(see my earlier posts if you lack the processing power to work that out) then both suikoden One and suikoden V occur within the same time period,being apart simply a matter of months rather than the seven to eight years that is part of the popular belief of the suikoden timeline.

P.s. I also added the exact quote of the dock worker to the original post about this so look there for verification.

8C:Pesmerga:"This is another reference of Konami. There is only 1 Lino En Kuldes that ruled the Islands, so you can't go wrong with that."

Nixxy:"thank you for now agreeing with me heh heh heh"


8D:Pesmerga: "It is confirmed that Suikoden V takes place 6 universe years before Suikoden I. Suikoden IV takes approximately 150 years before Suikoden I.
You can't take that number as an exact number of course."

8E:Nixxy:"and why precisely can I not it doesn't state specifically in the games that suikoden V takes place 160 rather than 150 years after suikoden IV or six years BEFORE suikoden one,in fact there is nothing in the games to oppose my timeline theories only support them."


4)Pesmerga:"This entire theory is based upon 1 line. I am sorry, but this theory is based upon a line that is taken way out of proportion,Remember, the Blinking Mirror was in possession of Hellion in Suikoden I and not Viki, I assume that Viki got the Blinking Mirror from Hellion."

4A: Nixxy:"I am fairly certain that since viki had the mirror in suikoden 4,that TIME doesn't matter to viki(as we well know) so just cause hellion had it in one that doesn't mean that is who viki received it from originally,but I digress simply because this is like impossible to actually prove the origins of the blinking mirror with the info we have now."

4B: Nixxy:I concede that in four it was the glowing hand mirror,instead of the blinking mirror but not necessarily that hellion gave viki the blinking mirror.

4C:Pesmerga:I am fearly certain that there was not the Blinking Mirror, but a Glowing Hand Mirror.
In Suikoden I you got the Blinking Mirror from Hellion, who had it in a chest, which she presented to you when you recruited her.



Goodbye paragraph:well gotta go for now mates have a great night and see ya guys laters.

Adorning is mentioned, but that simply means it is attched to them, as for example a jewel on a crown. Nowhere is it mentioned that these gems (as said in Suikoden V) have any power whatsoever. As the creation mythology goes, they became the Runes, once the battle was over.



Suikoden V did state things different, but on many sites (including Suikosource) hold to the Suikoden II book.
I admit that I mentioned the sparks, where I should have mentioned the jewels.



Books have the same meaning in all games, just slight different words, the meaning is however the same in all.



It is a similae, as that is not what is meant. They say deities, because that is a simple and effective way to descrive the True Runes.
The fact is that deities hold a power and so do the True Runes.



What I meant was the creation myth, which is a similar build up in comparison to the build up.
Sword and Shield fought for 7 days, God created the Earth in 7 days. Sword and Shield created the earth, sky and stars and so did God.
I'm not seeing a big difference.



If, True Runes seek power, why did the Soul Eater chose Tir McDohl? Why did the Rune of Punishment chose Glenn? Why did the Beast Rune chose L'Renouille and not Luca Blight?
True Runes seek people that are worthy to them, sometimes not even people but places or objects, such as the Beast Rune and the Night Rune.



They talk about gems that are attached to them, not True Runes. The creation mythology does not speak of magic being used during their battle.
The gems became the True Runes after their battle.



Again, no such mention as the gems being True Runes, it could simply be decorational, as the creation myth does not speak of True Runes prior to their battle.
Besides, it is already proven that True Runes choose their own master, which I had stated previously.
The Rune of Punishment swapped master alot, so did The Soul Eater, so it is cleary shown that they do choose their master.

Who says Sword and Shield are humans?




Suikoden IV's timeline is a rough estimation, no specific details can be given.



Well, Viki stole it then, as Hellion was in possession of the Blinking Mirror in Suikoden I. Besides, in Suikoden II you got the Blinking Mirror from Lepant, not from Viki.

1) Nixxy:"Take into context that the sources I am drawing from is suikoden Five,it is in one of the books there,that it mentions the word Adorned or so I believe,but I know that it is a fact I'll provide actual source quote sometime when I have access to five again."


Pesmerga:"Adorning is mentioned, but that simply means it is attched to them, as for example a jewel on a crown. Nowhere is it mentioned that these gems (as said in Suikoden V) have any power whatsoever. As the creation mythology goes, they became the Runes, once the battle was over."

Nixxy:"attached as a jewel on a crown or a rune on a body. same difference really just because they didn't bear the name true rune until after the war of the brothers does not mean that they WEREN'T true runes holding power before if you think of it 27 runes. 26 runes divided by two equals 13 runes,with the third rune being held by their mother this makes PERFECT sense to me a balance of power-- the two brothers holding opposite runes,whilst their mother holds a MASTER rune,very probably the rune of creation and destruction....so that her children wouldn't ever dare to go against remember that a certain ancient greek god was fearful of this and devoured his children so they wouldn't think of taking him down,and I believe that darkness is probably a woman cause it just doesn't strike me that a man would shed a tear out of loneliness and create children whereas a woman would,a man would wish for another to love and thus his tear would make a woman or man,whichever draws his fancy,don't you agree....a woman would not want the children to battle and destroy each other hence she bestows upon each 13 jewels filled with powers of all kinds which later become known as the true runes,cause remember nothing existed until after the war of the brothers so it makes sense that the true runes had no name before human,elf,dwarf,kobold,beaver and other humanoid sentient lifeforms gave them one. and one final question HOW do you suppose the TRUE runes were born? sword and shield are darkness's children;bearing the true jewels bestowed by their mother;there are the half-runes black sword and bright shield runes indeed,but they aren't a true rune,they are just like the half-runes of the gate,so you can't claim that all runes are descended from sword and shield all runes are descended from the rune darkness-sword and shield's mother holds,all runes can't be descended from sword and shield cause sword and shield did not create them,it was said that the Jewels True adorned Sword and Shield During the Brothers War;and hello BROTHERS as in related to each other if that doesn't speak of individuality and that they fought to see who was stronger I don't know what else you could consider them to be,they certainly weren't inanimate objects....


Pesmerga:"Suikoden V did state things different, but on many sites (including Suikosource) hold to the Suikoden II book.
I admit that I mentioned the sparks, where I should have mentioned the jewels."

Nixxy:"thank you for this,I know my stuff lol I'm glad you're not so pigheaded like my sister lol now thats one stubborn chica"

Nixxy:"because there is more than one game and all have the books pertaining to the creation of the world and the sparks from the battle became the stars according at least to suikoden V's book."

Pesmerga:"Books have the same meaning in all games, just slight different words, the meaning is however the same in all."

Nixxy:"I disagree with this so lets agree to disagree,my belief is that konami uses the books and later games to further the storyline and background info of the suikoverse...,so if a book or a tidbit of information from suikoden V contradicts information from suikoden III,then the information from suikoden III is considered no longer relevant cause I believe they look at these types of things whilst creating a new suikoden."


Nixxy: "yes thats my point I just wanted to clarify on my thread that despite wikipedia's ignorance the true runes are not deities."

Pesmerga:"It is a similae, as that is not what is meant. They say deities, because that is a simple and effective way to descrive the True Runes.
The fact is that deities hold a power and so do the True Runes."

Nixxy:"Indeed and the BROTHERS Sword and Shield each once held 13 jewels which became known as the True Runes,instead of the popular belief that they became the True Runes,the jewels held power all along cause seriously what type of warrior goes into battle with pretty little baubles like diamonds and sapphires adorning their flesh if the gems possessed no useful powers?"

Nixxy:"the suikoden universe has no similarities to the bible,hello the suikoden universe is very paganistic/heretical in reference to what would pass as the christian religion,which doesn't exist in any of the suikodens so far,the only thing even remotely close to christianity or any religion for that matter would be the bishop-rulers of holy harmonia and they worship the runes from what I can gather."

Pesmerga:"What I meant was the creation myth, which is a similar build up in comparison to the build up.
Sword and Shield fought for 7 days, God created the Earth in 7 days. Sword and Shield created the earth, sky and stars and so did God.
I'm not seeing a big difference."

Nixxy:"hmmmm that is slightly similar but you should specify precisely what you are trying to convey lol,but by the way Sword created the sky,Shield the earth;they both created the stars,but neither created the runes...or placed them on their bodies;two warriors would not know how to attach a rune thats why I attribute that to darkness their mother in a small hope to prevent her two sons from warring against each other....."


Nixxy:"explain this relevance to my post lol,true runes do seek men of power according to Lino en Kuldes just prior to the second use of the rune of punishment on Obel Island."


Pesmerga:"If, True Runes seek power, why did the Soul Eater chose Tir McDohl? Why did the Rune of Punishment chose Glenn? Why did the Beast Rune chose L'Renouille and not Luca Blight?
True Runes seek people that are worthy to them, sometimes not even people but places or objects, such as the Beast Rune and the Night Rune.

Nixxy: "Soul Eater chose Lan cause Ted basically gave it to lan,and the Soul Eater TRUSTS Ted.
The Rune of Punishment chose Glen I believe cause it chooses the most powerful man of character and integrity so it chose Glenn rather than Hero3(Nixxy in my game)
I have no answer to the Beast Rune;cause I haven't played that Suikoden II once I do I will get back to you.(I have a rough idea but I want to check it out first by playing the game.)
The Night Rune prefers independance which is why it values those who are somewhat loners, I.e. Viktor,Edge,Zerase.

Nixxy:"it's not contradictory according to Suikoden V's books and Pesmerga and Yuber COULD be the "fallen angel" versions of sword and shield,but every theory is speculation till it gains popularity,one of them being bitter at the defeat blaming the True Runes,hence why Yuber hates them and the other seeking vengeance,evidenced by Pesmerga chasing Yuber."


Pesmerga:"They talk about gems that are attached to them,not True Runes. The creation mythology does not speak of magic being used during their battle.
The gems became the True Runes after their battle."

Nixxy: "It's more likely that the gems were True Runes before the battle was even started but weren't called True Runes.

Nixxy:"but lets say that it is possible that the True Runes dislike being used this way and started to choose their own master?
now isn't that an intriguing notion,that the weakened sword and shield lost control of the true runes they each held?
so the true runes free of their dictating bearers,emerged as a shaping influence on the world,acting through masters of their own choosing?"

Pesmerga:"Again, no such mention as the gems being True Runes, it could simply be decorational, as the creation myth does not speak of True Runes prior to their battle.
Besides, it is already proven that True Runes choose their own master, which I had stated previously.
The Rune of Punishment swapped master alot, so did The Soul Eater, so it is cleary shown that they do choose their master.

Who says Sword and Shield are humans?"

Nixxy: "it does speak of the true runes,but they weren't known as true runes them,again what kinda warrior carries pretty but useless jewels into battle?and yes but in the beginning before the conclusion of the brother's war there were only three entities;Darkness;Shield;Sword so even if at that point in their existence if the runes could choose their master the pickings were pretty slim....but my opinion is that the True runes were subjugated by Sword and Shield cause seriously who knows how many millenia passed before the Brothers War even began?That's my point if they aren't human or even humanoid they could have powers humans don't have like Yuber possesses the ability to exist in the world of emptiness."

Nixxy:"and why precisely can I not it doesn't state specifically in the games that suikoden V takes place 160 rather than 150 years after suikoden IV or six years BEFORE suikoden one,in fact there is nothing in the games to oppose my timeline theories only support them."

Pesmerga:"Suikoden IV's timeline is a rough estimation, no specific details can be given."

Nixxy:"That still doesn't answer my question pesmerga WHY can I NOT use my timeline?"

Nixxy:I concede that in four it was the glowing hand mirror,instead of the blinking mirror but not necessarily that hellion gave viki the blinking mirror.

Pesmerga:"Well, Viki stole it then, as Hellion was in possession of the Blinking Mirror in Suikoden I. Besides, in Suikoden II you got the Blinking Mirror from Lepant, not from Viki."

Nixxy:"Viki doesn't strike me as the stealing type...and in Suikoden II if Lepant has the blinking mirror that would mean that she would have had to steal the mirror from him after she came back to II from IV,so Hellion gives it to Lepant cause she takes the place of Leknaat as seer that makes sense to me,since Lepant is Toran's new president,but Viki couldn't have stolen it,lol I lurves you viki but sadly you wouldnt make a good thief.

First of all, the creation myth from Suikoden V:

In the beginning,
all that existed
was Darkness.

For a long, long time,
Darkness lived in solitude,
Darkness shed a tear.

From the tear were born two brothers:
Sword and Shield.

Sword claimed it could cut through
all that exists.
Shield claimed itself impenetrable.

Thus, the conflict was born --
a truly vicious conflict, lasting
seven days and seven nights.

In the end, Sword breached Shield,
and Shield shattered Sword.
Pieces of Sword rained down to make the
sky. Pieces of Shield rained down to
make the ground. Stars were created
from the sparks of the battle.

The 27 gems adorning Sword and Shield
transformed into the 27 True Runes.

And thus began the world as we know it.

They simply speak of gems here, not runes attached to the body, this is something you made up. In all the books in Suikoden, they speak of either gems, or jewels. They never mention anything related to magic.
You also speak about each having 13 gems and the last one being held by their mother.
First of all, it is not known what identity this "darkness" is, for all I care, it could be emptiness, such as space.
Second, the text clearly states that all 27 gems adorning Sword and Shield.

Most of that part of text is speculation beyond reasoning. All those things you say have never been confirmed, or even talked about by Konami, nor ar they stated anywhere in the game.
The books do not talk about magic and the the books do not talk about the gems/jewels containing any form of power.
What you're saying simply implied by your own fantasy and is not true.
What true is that the True Runes were born after the battle of Sword and Shield and their battle could easily be the reason that the runes got their power.




If you know your stuff, you might want to revise a little more.



The books tell no story, you play the story. All what the books do, is tell the creation myth, which is the same in all books, just V used more words, yet things did not change.
All the other things the books mention is previous wars, item shops, rare items and sometimes background information on characters.
Anyway, all these things do not change the fact, which is the creation myth and the fact about that is, that the creation myth has not changed at all.




Could you prove to me that Sword and Shield hold 13 jewels each? The Creation Myth contradicts you, so please give me some form of proof that Sword and Shield did indeed hold 13 jewels each.
Besides, I was talking about what you said about Wikipedia and not Sword and Shield.
And everyone knows that in ancient times people liked to use jewels to show power and status.



First you do say they adorned Sword and Shield and now you say they don't. It would be handy if you wouldn't contradict yourself.
Besides, this is really confusing me, what are you trying to say here?




You can't give a True Rune, lol. What on Earth made you think that? The Soul Eater chose Tir McDohl?
Besides, Glenn isn't really the most powerful person.
I say it again, Runes choose places/people, the Beast Rune was in Harmonia, but found the Harmonians not worthy and decided to go to L'Renouille instead.
The Night Rune spent a long time sleeping, which is known.
True Runes only reveal themselves when they see someone worthy, why else do you think you see True Runes so few?

Also, there is no hint at all, about Yuber and Pesmerga being Sword and Shield, this is simply speculation.




No, they don't speak of True Runes, they speak of gems adorning Sword and Shield. The words True Runes aren't mentiond untill after the battle where it is stated that the gems became the True Runes.
You also seem to be under the impression that Sword and Shield are some kind of warriors, which is again pure speculation. Nothing is said about this, please stick to the text and stop making things up.



Because you didn't create the game. Suikoden IV takes place approximately 150 years before Suikoden I.
There is no specific document and saying you use your own timeline is equivalent of saying, the creators say this, but I don't care and say something different anyway.
There doesn't need to be a specific answer anyway, because Suikoden IV is most likely the only game that will take place in that time, I really really doubt that there will be a Suikoden VI, VII, VII, and so on, that will be in that time.



I am merely saying that Hellion was in possession of the Blinking Mirror, she presented it to you and it was yours.
At the end of Suikoden I, the Blinking Mirror became possession of Lepant, because Tir left his status.
Hellion became seer, instead of Leknaat.

This might be slightly off-topic, but I remember it being said, in Suikoden II, that the Beast Rune was passed on to the Blight family (I forget the specific reason, though). Is what you said something explained more in Gaiden and/or the novels?

I read it on one of the Suikoden sites.
The Harmonians claimed it was a gift to the Blight family, but in reality they Beast Rune left himself and they tried to protect that.

That's true.

Them Harmonians are pretty crafty at covering up their errs.

Ah. Yeah, had a feeling that may have been it, after reading what you said. Alright then, that works for me. *commits to memory*

I never believe anything unless I see source material from the game firsthand so I can check it out for myself see pesmerga is not providing any source material from the games all he does is stuff online from sites he sees which in my opinion those sites are prone to errors and false information so don't believe what he says as indefinate truth because honestly its not like out of game it says suiko one and five happen at different times by a matter of years but in-game it says that it happens at different times by a matter of months....

There are novels and spin offs that are also part of the series. Really!? YES!
Besides, I noticed in your last piece of text you are lying. In most of your posts, you were making things up and got things out of the blue and talked about it, as if they were true, like how Sword and Shield hold 13 runes each, YET the game says something otherwise.
The information I get, is from both internal and external information. There are several novels and other forms of information about Suikoden, something that sites, such as Suikox and Suikosource have gathered.

Anyway, those sites ain't prone errors and false information, unless someone proves that, which I highly doubt is the case and I certainly don't believe will, with all the fantasy you've been blabbering about.

Also, I tell you again, as you didn't read it the first time: Suikoden IV takes place approximately 150 years before Suikoden I. So, that means whatever is said in reference to Suikoden IV in Suikoden V is an estimation.
Meaning, IT IS NOT AN EXACT NUMBER!

Consider the difference between Jeanne and Viki in each game. Jeanne is generally just someone you run into who you happen to be able to recruit. Most of the time she has no major bearing on the plot. Suikoden V being the only exception I know of (haven't played all the games though) where she is recruited to try and make the sun rune usable. Otherwise, you can often just ignore her unless you are aiming for all 108 stars.

Viki on the other hand seems directly linked to the 108 stars phenomenon. She always appears directly in front of the hero at some point in the game. By appearances, she always does so directly after her usefulness to the previous hero has ended. ie. always during the victory celebration. In Suikoden 2 she appears with a knife and fork in her hands and wonders where her food has vanished to. This happens too often to be a mere co-incidence IMO, especially since she always appears directly in front of the protagonist, not simply in the same general vicinity or in the same point in time. Something must have happened in her past that makes this happen. Also note that Viki immediately requests sanctuary from the hero when she appears. She never tries to strike out on her own - presumably she has been so traumatised by her past teleports that she isn't willing to go it alone.

Viki's confusion regarding time and location suggests she's either muddled in the head or doesn't pay much attention to the calendar. When she shows up in Suikoden V and is told she is in the Queendom of Falena she seems slightly surprised that it still exists. Presumably in the future where she came from/has been it has fallen. The thing is, aside from her disorientation after each teleport, she seems in full possessesion of her senses. She only messes things up sometimes when she sneezes. About her only mental problem seems to be a bit of insecurity.

It is known that Viki is quite ditzy and that she messes up more than one should.

About the teleportation thing, I think it is merely a coincidence. Sure, it is really stretched, but I still think it is.
It could be that there is a deeper meaning behind all her unfortunate time traveling, but I am perfectly fine with how she is. I don't think she needs a lot of background information, unlike Jeane.

Viki's appearance is the same, but is easy explainable, as she time travels. Jeane doesn't have time traveling abilities (that we know of) and so far, only animals can see her "true" identity. This has been confirmed by the dog in Suikoden III and Genoh in Suikoden V. Also Viki states in Suikoden IV that she recognizes her.
Jeane holds a certain mystery behind her, as her appearance is the same in every game. Well, she looks different in Suikoden V, but the creators did that, so she wouldn't be confused for a Falenan.

Jeane (apart from Suikoden V) doesn't matter much to the story, but so doesn't Viki. Viki usually gives you the Blinking Mirror, or something equivalent. Only in Suikoden V did she seem to have a little impact on the story when they discover the Sindar Ruins and Lorelai recognises her. It is quite funny that she fell through that roof with Nash Latkje =P.

I'm nearly finished Suikoden 3 for the first time and had a thought regarding Viki. Despite her appearance, I wonder if small Viki could actually be the older version of the two. The logical assumption is that smaller = younger, but in a world filled with magic there are many possibilites.

The first thing that makes me suspect this is small Viki's adult like behaviour and her reactions on arriving. When she appears she immediately knows where she is and what year it is. She also recognises the flame champion on sight. If small Viki had merely been summoned in from a different location but from the same timezone you wouldn't expect her to know the flame champion on sight as that information had only just begun to filter out. Even nearby villagers don't know the flame champion by sight. Either small Viki has some kind of knowledge powers to let her know things inherently, or she knows this because she recalls her past. Likewise, small Viki doesn't even blink when she meets her larger counterpart. You'd think she'd have some amount of shock at meeting a larger version of herself.

The second thing is the blinking mirror. Small Viki has it with her and hands it over, but large Viki never had it in the first 2 games, it was always provided by someone else. Since Viki in the third game is directly imported after the end of the second game (where she was likewise imported directly from the end of the first game) then presumably she never had the blinking mirror before in her life. I'm not sure about the fourth game (haven't gotten to it yet), but I'm pretty sure she hands the mirror over in the fifth game which indicates she has become it's custodian by that point. If that's the case, then it makes sense for small Viki to be a future version of herself since she has the mirror with her.

On a related note, is one of small Viki's comments mistranslated? When I spoke to her in the fourth chapter she says something like "That guy would be more dignified if he read more". I'd guess she is talking about her larger counterpart, but she says "guy" not "girl" or "gal".

The "younger" Viki is the only real mystery behind Viki. As I said in my previous post, Viki herself doesn't really need a background story, as her current situation is perfectly plausible. Maybe something happened to her when she was young that she lost her memory, or got completely confused. Maybe it is all the accidental time travelling that messed her up.

On that note, Viki did has the Blinking Mirror in Suikoden I and II, but never gave it to you.
In Suikoden I and II, both Viki was the way to teleport you around. In Suikoden I the Blinking Mirror was handed to you by Hellion and in Suikoden II by Lepant, but in both games it was Viki who used it.

I'd like to see Viki get some more background information, like where she came from. I'd like to see that distorted world of hers.
However, I am fine with how she is at the moment. She could be the younger self of the smaller Viki in Suikoden III, but I believe the smaller Viki in Suikoden III is referred to as young Viki, even by Konami, but I am not sure.

I was under the impression that the Blinking Mirror comes in a pair. One is the large static one used by (Elder) Viki to teleport you to places from the HQ, the other smaller one carried in your immediate inventory as the means of returning to HQ from anywhere on the map. This is also why Suikoden IV mistranslates the one that you carry as "Glowing Hand Mirror".