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Servant Saber
QUOTE
Obama, Huckabee win in Iowa
Huckabee defeats Romney; Dodd, Biden drop out of Democratic race

DES MOINES, Iowa - Sen. Barack Obama, bidding to be the first black president in American history, won the Iowa caucuses Thursday night, pushing Sen. Hillary Clinton back to third place in the opening test of the race for the Democratic presidential nomination.

On the Republican side, Mike Huckabee rode a wave of support from evangelical Christians to victory over Mitt Romney.

Obama, 46, told a raucous victory rally his triumph showed that in "big cities and small towns, you came together to say, 'We are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has come.'"

Final Democratic returns showed the first-term lawmaker gaining 38 percent support. Former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina gained second, barely edging out Clinton, the former first lady.

Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut and Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware dropped out of the Democratic race after poor showings, and Mike Gravel was expected to drop out as well. Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson finished well back.

With the New Hampshire primary only five days distant, Clinton and Edwards vowed to fight on in the race for the Democratic nomination.

"We have always planned to run a national campaign," the former first lady told supporters at a noisy rally attended by her husband and their daughter, Chelsea. "I am so ready for the rest of this campaign, and I am so ready to lead."

Edwards, the Democrats' 2004 vice presidential nominee, told The Associated Press in an interview he would distinguish himself from Obama in New Hampshire by arguing that he is the candidate who can deliver the change that voters have shown they want.

"I'm going to fight for that change," he said by telephone from his hotel room in Iowa. "I've fought for it my entire life."

Huckabee outspent in Iowa
Huckabee, a preacher turned politician, handily defeated Romney despite being outspent by millions of dollars and deciding in the campaign's final days to scrap television commercials that would have assailed the former Massachusetts governor.

He stressed his religion to the extent of airing a commercial that described himself as a "Christian leader" in his race against a man seeking to become the first Mormon president.


Nearly complete returns showed Huckabee with 34 percent support, compared with 25 percent for Romney. Former Sen. Fred Thompson and Sen. John McCain battled for third place, while Texas Rep. Ron Paul wound up fifth and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani sixth.

In his victory speech, Huckabee said the result proved that "people are more important than the purse."

"A new day is needed in American politics, just like a new day is needed in American government," the former Arkansas governor told cheering supporters. "It starts here, but it doesn't end here."


Romney sought to frame his defeat as something less than that, saying he had trailed Huckabee by more than 20 points in the polls a few weeks ago. "I've been pleased that I've been able to make up ground, and I intend to keep making up ground, not just here but across the country," he said.

The words were brave, but already his strategy of bankrolling a methodical campaign in hopes of winning the first two states was in tatters — and a rejuvenated McCain was tied with him in the polls in next-up New Hampshire.

Late Thursday, McCain congratulated Huckabee on his victory.

"I look forward to seeing him on the campaign trail, and I know that he'll continue his positive campaign," McCain said at a campaign event in Manchester, N.H.


Iowans voted in caucuses at 1,781 precincts from Adel to Zingle, in schools, firehouses and community centers.

The Iowa Democratic Party reported late Thursday that there had been a record turnout of 239,000 at the party's caucuses. In 2004, about 125,000 came out, the party said.

Turnout was also up on the Republican side, where projections showed about 114,000 people taking part. The last previous contested Republican caucuses in 2000 drew 87,666 participants.

"This is a great night for Democrats," Clinton said in her speech. "We have seen an unprecedented turnout here in Iowa, and that is good news because today we are sending a clear message that we are going to have change, and that change will be a Democratic president in the White House in 2009."

Born-again element among Republicans
In interviews as they entered the caucuses, more than half of all the Republicans said they were either born-again or evangelical Christians, and they liked Huckabee more than any of his rivals. Romney led handily among the balance of the Iowa Republican voters, according to the survey.

About half the Democratic caucus-goers said a candidate's ability to bring about needed change was the most important factor as they made up their minds, according to voters surveyed by NBC News and other news organizations as they entered the caucuses.


Change was Obama's calling card in the arduous campaign for Iowa's backing.

"They said this day would never come," Obama said Thursday night to cheering supporters of his bid to become the first black president. "They said our sights were set too high. They said this country was too divided, too disillusioned to ever come together. But on this January night at this defining moment in history, you have done what the cynics said we couldn't do."

Fewer voters cited experience, which Clinton said was her strong suit, or a candidate's chance of capturing the White House or ability to care about people like the voters themselves.

Two who won't continue
Win or lose, there was little time for rest. New Hampshire's first-in-the nation primary is set for Tuesday, and the campaign quickly accelerates into a rush of contests culminating in more than two dozen on Feb. 5.

But Dodd and Biden won't be competing in New Hampshire.

"Tonight I am withdrawing from the presidential race, but let me assure you, we are not ending this race with our heads hanging but with our heads held high," Dodd told about 100 supporters Thursday night.

Biden had similar words for supporters in Des Moines.

"There is nothing sad about tonight. We are so incredibly proud of you all," he said. "So many of you have sacrificed for me and I am so indebted to you. I feel no regret. I ain't goin' away."


I'm so incredibly glad to see Hillary running the back. I will absolutely not vote for her if she gets elected.
Athrun
Yeah I think Vins mentioned this in chat. Good news. I never liked Hillary. But given the history of elections in the US lately, I wouldn't be surprised if she wins, and then you'll all regret it, again. Did I say you? I meant everyone on the planet.
Razael
I want Obama to win. The US needs flavour and Obama will give it by giving extensive tax benefits to KFC, companies that make orange and grape soda, car boutiques that put dvd players on the trunk of cars for absolutely no reason other because the client felt like it, the colour purple, cornbread and FUBU/Phat Farm.

Its gonna be banging yo.
Crestin
yea... funny... *rolls eyes*
SharkFinn
It seems that I'm the only person here with a candidate I actually like. I feel Obama lines up rather well with my personal ideology, or at least much better than anybody else lines up with it. So I'm glad he won, but the Iowa caucus is rather weird. Those who win Iowa don't always keep their momentum going because the Iowa voters are so weird.

I would vote for Hillary if she got the nomination if only because as bad as she is, she still beats the hell out of the Republican field of candidates.
Crestin
this is why im glad im not american, and therefore dont have to choose smile.gif although even if i was, i suppose i could always abstain, but that wouldn't sit right with me...

i guess i dont know enough about the candidates to make any comments. I just dont like racism.
Razael
I cant be racist, I am not white.
Crestin
hahaha, thats a funny statement!! (and im sorry, this is not an attack at you! its just that to say you arent white doesnt mean you cant be a racist... if you are a member of a race, you can be racist)
Dragon Brigade
I think you may have missed Raz’s humor, Crestin...>.o

On topic though, I can’t say I’ve really been following closely to any of the presidential hopefuls. I guess I’m just hoping for the best to come with whomever is elected president, but beyond that I don’t really have an opinion. Perhaps I could start following more closely, but at the moment politics isn’t my thing. I suppose I’d go for Obama, but I’m not really sure if I’d really want to put my money on him. I’m undecided in this matter, and probably will stay that way until I’m actually able to vote >.o
Crestin
i wholeheartedly apologise, Razael smile.gif
Noir
The reign of the White Devil is coming to an end. Looks like I need to find a real job.
The Evil Dead
It doesn't matter who wins it's just a matter of voting for the lesser of two evils... The Dem's.

I hope Obama loses. He doesn't tackle any issues at all and flip flops quite often. Not only that but I can only take so many generalized statements before I want some details about changes he's going to bring to this country. I don't really like Hillary either, but I think she'd take it down Bill style.

Also I believe the NH caucus is nearing end... Last I checked it was a dead heat between Obama and Clinton with likelihood of Obama laying the smack down. Unfortunate, to say the least.
Logain
You know, it doesn't really matter who we vote in as president. Its congress who decides everything, the president just gets to stand there and look pretty. Congress is the one who gets to decide what laws get passed, and they decide whether they like a president or not to let him(her) do what they promised. So I say take a closer look at your senators and representatives.
SharkFinn
QUOTE (Logain @ Jan 7 2008, 08:23 PM) *
You know, it doesn't really matter who we vote in as president. Its congress who decides everything, the president just gets to stand there and look pretty. Congress is the one who gets to decide what laws get passed, and they decide whether they like a president or not to let him(her) do what they promised. So I say take a closer look at your senators and representatives.

That is not even remotely true. The President has veto power. Ever wonder why even a united Congress sometimes gets nothing done?
Logain
veto power is about all they've got, congress has everything else. Not only that, congress can also override a veto.
SharkFinn
To override a veto, you need one of several things: a veto-proof majority, a unifying issue that only a complete dumbass (Bush) would reject (which, until recently, would have included children's health care), or both. Veto-proof majorities are EXTREMELY rare these days. I'm guessing the last time anyone had one was the Democrats after 1964.

Anyway, we talked about New Hampshire in AP Government class today.

McCain picked up an expected victory, Romney came in second. Romney's got a substantial lead in delegates over the other candidates. Hillary won in a huge upset over Obama, but Obama still got more delegates from that state than she did. Nevertheless, Hillary's got Obama almost doubled up in delegates because of her overwhelming support from superdelegates. The top two in the Democratic race and the top four in the Republican race are still very much alive. Any thoughts?
The Evil Dead
Obama better not win. I'm not interested in another puppet in the office.
SharkFinn
QUOTE (The Evil Dead @ Jan 9 2008, 04:15 PM) *
Obama better not win. I'm not interested in another puppet in the office.

I'm not sure he'd be a puppet, but he might be a Jimmy Carter-esque figure who takes our country in the wrong direction. He's a risky one; Hillary's a safer choice, but she's probably even less electable than Obama. I figure that sexism is more prevalent than racism, and thus a white woman is less likely to be elected than a black man. I have no source to back me up, though, so feel free to completely dismiss that statement.

Would you vote for, say, Romney over Obama? Just wondering.
The Evil Dead
##### no. Anyone who votes republican is a complete idiot.

FOX AND FRIENDS! WEEEEEEEEE.
Athrun
I hope Hillary doesn't win. Or it's another 4 - 8 years of hell.
SharkFinn
QUOTE (Athrun @ Jan 10 2008, 04:20 AM) *
I hope Hillary doesn't win. Or it's another 4 - 8 years of hell.

What exactly is it that people don't like about Hillary? I don't see it, personally.

I'd vote for her over any of the Republican field of candidates, anyway.
The Evil Dead
QUOTE (Athrun @ Jan 10 2008, 05:20 AM) *
I hope Hillary doesn't win. Or it's another 4 - 8 years of hell.


If you're not being sarcastic then I've lost all respect that I never really had for you, Atty. Not that she's my top dog, but she's going to do a hell of a lot better than Obama or any Republican elected.

I'm down for Billary. As long as she's not the total opposite of her husband the US could be in for a good swing if she's elected as shown by Bill's presidency.
Servant Saber
Congressional overrides require a 2/3rd's majority vote. That does not happen often. Congress also doesn't control any of the Military, only the spending. The President has the final say in what pretty much all of the other Departments of his part of the government do.

Personally, I don't like Clinton or Obama.

I'd vote for McCain or Huckabee. I'm not fond of Romney, though.
SharkFinn
I'd vote for McCain also. If he beats out Romney (and it looks like he won't, judging from the goings-on so far tonight), I'll be in quite a conundrum. Of course, if McCain doesn't win, I'll vote for the Dem in a heartbeat.
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