I'm sure everyone in the world is aware of the problems surrounding the Olympic games in China, so I've decided to start a thread about this subject because I think it is a crucial subject to the entire world.

Some things can't be denied in this topic though,
- China has annexed Tibet, this is a fact.
- China is a communist country.
- Freedom in China is very restricted.

I think that we should all go to the Olympic Games and make sure every sportsman or woman protests about some things, like ' free Tibet'. Also we, (with 'we' I mean the West in particular) should not go to the opening ceremony.
China has to know that it can not just do what it wants, there are rules that need to be respected by every nation, even by gigantic China.

Now feel free to say what you think about this matter. I will try to make sure people don't start insulting or other things.

The ironic thing is that the United States makes China its enemy by letting its corporations make base there and take advantage of China's lack of personal freedoms for their own personal advantage, which only hurts US economy and emboldens China's. In effect, it is the corporation that are the enemies of the US rather than their proxy - China would doubtlessly be much worse off had we not gone and begun giving them industry.

The fact that China is a communist nation doesn't matter one bit when it comes to freedom. One can have political freedom without too many economical freedoms, but it's not like even that matters.

And we've annexed parts of Mexico without much protests from people outside of Mexico. I'm sure new Mexico south Texas that wasn't overtaken during the Texas revolution didn't want to be part of the US at the time. Either way, what business of ours is Tibet? America isn't a global superhero (it has gone so far as denying the Armenian genocide to keep Turkey as an ally, proving that it isn't further). It should not take up burdens it doesn't need, Iraq and many other conflicts needed, Tibet one of them. Will you call for a similar in the 2014 Olympics, in Russia, asking for all Olympic athletes to wear LEAVE CHECHNYA bands and such? That would get them killed.

Germany was committing worse injustices prior to the 1936, and we had no problem going there until a full out war broke out.

Some other points of interest:
first these already known Chinese points:

- Very strict when it comes to their rules/government
- Communistic

Now, let us take a look at Tibet, they are within the Chinese Nation right now:

- Allowed to have their own religion
- Speak their own language
- Do as much as they like with their religion

In a country such as China, I think Tibet should be very happy with this liberal thing. I think they are the most "free" part in China.

I also agree with Jackie Chan. He said that, if someone tries to take the torch from him, or extinguish it, they have to deal with Chan first. x'D
Go Chan, KICK THEIR ASS!

So, whatever happens in Tibet, it should remain out the Olympic Games. It is sad that people always try to take the Olympic Games for their own goals.
As usual, we have people with big names join in on the media hype. Go Richard Gere, idiot.. I doubt you even fully understand what is going on.

yes but all than libnerties loose becouse of aggesion from than red army. i cannot belleving how than can be pro-china? than not seeing news coverege?

Tibet is still screwy in its own way. They're having protests and such, and haven't we learned from Tiennamen square?
Richard Gere's an awesome guy, he's a buddhist monk pacifist kung fu artist who defeated Bruce Campbell in equal combat. Wait.

Not picking any sides mate. I just think that the media is overhyping things as usual.
Considering the strickt laws in China, about not having more than so many kids and the other laws about religion and whatnot, I think Tibet should be pleased.
I mean, they can have their own religion, the Chinese child rule doesn't count for them, at least so I have been told and they can have their own religion.

What I am against is using the Olympics for your own goods, like Tibet is doing. They do not care about the Olympic games, all they care is about themselves, whereas the Olympic games is a world wide event.
Seriously, people should stop using the Olympics for their own goods, it is not the first time.
I also hope Jackie Chan will kick butt.

FACT.

I seriously hate watching the news these days because of the rather "bad" coverage China is getting. Why the #### are british, french, americans or whatever people protesting to change ANOTHER COUNTRY'S laws? Yeh, the citizens of Tibet and China can protest because they live/come from there and know what its all about, but random people who never knew of the place until now, protesting and ruining the Olympic relay is beyond wtf.

A chinese man from China working in London even commented that the Olympics is a sports event not a politcal one. Yes, China has its issues, but doesn't every country? You think trying to ruin the Olympics is really going make the government decide to free Tibet?

I think the protestors have the weirdest reasoning I could ever imagine. China has terrible Human Rights, so let's boycott the Olympics. How do those two coincide with another? Extinguishing the torch and not attending the Opening Ceremonies is a pretty useless idea.

If you want to boycott China, you should have started much earlier. Also, don't buy China's products. That is a much better idea and it would actually hurt China in the end. For me, it seems like the protestors just want exposure and to push their personal agenda down people's throats.

For the Olympics themselves, I could care less. They never interested me in the least, so I will ignore them like I do during every Olympic games.

The Olympic games are the best sporting events ever. Though their commercials aren't as awesome as the Superbowl's.

Eitherway.

I agree with Markies. Boycott Chinese goods, not the Olympics.
Oh and watch C Span, and screw the other news.

I don't see a point with boycotting the event at all, as it would do more damage then good, and wouldn't work to get any point across. What they have done and succeeded with is raised awareness of the issue, but I'd still say they're going at it the entirely wrong way by trying to boycott it.

In the end, that is pretty much how I feel about the issue with China. Simply boycotting the Olympics because it is in China really is not achieving anything when we still supporting their economy.

I want to say that you do NOT have to be Chinese or Tibetan to be allowed to critisize China. I'm getting annoyed by these people who are blinding themselves from reality.

China is a communist nation, even though it doesn't seem so at the first glance, and this DOES in fact affect the human rights within the country and the people of China, in a very bad way.

I know people prefer "improvement of the life standard" (don't know if this is well translated from Dutch) to improvement in democracy and freedom. People in China are certainly not as "free" as people in the West; this is a fact.

I also want to make it clear to you that I'm not in favour of boycotting the Olympic Games because that would lead to isolation. But I do encourage people to protest against the Chinese regime, if necessary the athletes themselves.
If 60% of all the athletes do some form of protest I'd like to see the Chinese disqualify them.

You guys have to see how a nation like China works, the worst thing that can happen to them is loss of face, so they simply can't disqualify the athletes. If we, Western nations show the rest of the world what China is doing wrong, maybe their regime will become more moderate.

They are so focused on prestige and honour that you can be certain that at least 40% of all the medals will be won by China. They want to show the world that they' are the best.

Also why are you guys talking about "hurting China" I don't wish to hurt them, I'm happy that their economy is growing, (this is not at all a threat for the West by the way, their growth will stop when they've reached our level),
I just want democracy and more freedom for the people.

Lastly about that example of Mexico, Denim, the USA annexed a relatively small portion of Mexico way back in the past, whereas China annexed an entire Nation with it's own culture and tradition. Saying that they are being treated well by the Chinese and that they have some independance means nothing, think of how you would feel if your country is invaded and subdued.
annexation is annexation, period.

EDIT: Also I'm not saying the West or the USA is superior, I'm just saying that in the USA you don't get locked up in a concentration camp for the rest of your life if you critisize the government.

Unless you live there, reality can be modified through many sources, such as the media.
It would be unfair to judge what happens in your own house, if all I see is things on the media. This same counts for China. Unless you've physically been there, you are in no right to judge.



I fail to see why this is a valid point of discussion. In America people aren't as free as in the Netherlands, yet does that matter?



Can you tell me, why we should tell the world what China is doing? I mean, are we the crusaders, to protect the world?
Is it our mission to barge into other countries, telling them what to do and that they should live like we do?

As Winnie said, China has problems, but so does every other country. People just like to drool on China's ones, as it makes them think they look cool and fight for a good cause, yet they fail to see that they are ruining one of the oldest traditions since human civilization.

America and Europe have no right to tell China from good or wrong, nor does China have anything to say about Europe and America.
It is the same as that I have no right to tell you what to do in your own house.

They are so focused on prestige and honour that you can be certain that at least 40% of all the medals will be won by China. They want to show the world that they' are the best.



Their economical power will grow, as long as companies such as Apple keep using the China people to make their computers.
In China it is cheaper to produce items than in America, so as long as people have people in China to make their things, the Chinese market will grow.

All the press that was there documenting Gorbachov's visit to China diverted ALL of their attention to Tienamen square, and showed the massacre taking place. China does not care about face. China cares nothing for its face, or for your face. China is a for profit organization - the profit for the few at the top. It is a caste system that makes India look like less of a prison compound and more of a vacation home - and wearing Free Tibet bracelets, shirts, jackets, flags and bumper stickers will do nothing to China. Boycotting their goods will.

@ Pesmerga, so if I understand what you're saying, it means that I can not judge nazi-Germany because I'm not German, I can't critisize the holocaust because I'm not a jew, I can't frown upon homosexuals being executed in Iran because I'm not Iranian, etc. You do understand that you are talking nonsense, one of the rights of freedom of speech is that you CAN openly critisize or make fun of anything you want to.

Secondly, freedom is a very valid point, it is part of the Human Rights, being free to say whatever one desires without being executed matters a lot. And your example about the Netherlands and the USA means nothing because RELATIVELY they both allow very much freedom to the people, when you go to China it's like you're in the Stone Age again. I'll give an example, if this forum was Chinese, a topic like this would not even be allowed to exist, would you want that Pesmerga?

Lastly tradition is NOT always a good thing, and I also want to make clear that China can do whatever it wants in its country even if the West doesn't approve of it. But when they start to annex other countries (Tibet), they cross the line, then we can interfere. Also I know very well that every country has its problems, and it's funny that you used the term "crusaders" because I'm AGAINST violence, is protesting violent? I don't think so, so we're not crusaders.

You judge Germany and the holocaust matter more openly now because it is in the past and not much effect can happen unless maybe you do it Germany where people maybe offended by your views and act upon it. I can judge that China isn't a great country and I can disagree with some of its laws, but if I were to take action and protest against its laws that's a different matter because judging a country and taking action from that judgement is different. Because ones views can be clouded by what the media shows you in such a large subject, a country like China, one really can't have a strong view of what goes on in the country itself unless you're a KNOW the country and what better people know the country than their own citizens that have lived with their laws.

No-one's really saying that they agree wth China's views/laws, but really that boycotting and "disturbing" the Olympics really isn't the best policy. By what means does China make you feel like you're living in the stone age? Freedom of speech was never purely "free".

As Winnie said, you talk about events that happened in the past and what we know are commonly known as facts.
How can you say, with an honest face and 100% truthfully that you what you see on the tele is the exact truth.
See, you get annoyed by people that blind themselves from the media, I get annoyed by people that take the media for granted. In other words, believe everything the media says.
If anyone is talking nonsense it is you.
You cannot judge what happens in China, as I cannot judge what happens in your house. Sure, I can criticize it, but am I in the right place to do so? No.
If someone tells me that you beat children in your house and shows me a clip, how can I be sure that it is you, it is your house, it is real? Seriously, don't believe everything, it is a lesson you should've learned ages ago.
I mean, you don't get into a car with a stranger, so why take something on the media as a fact, whereas no facts are proven?



First of all, you talked about freedom in the West. Why this isn't a valid point, is because China isn't the West. It is the East. Really? Yes, really.
Why do you think that the world must have the same rules as "the West?" Are we superior to other races? Are we elite to them?
The comment about China and the stone age just made me laugh. Do you really have a clue to what you talk about?
This is called Communism, my fellow Dutchie, that means diffirent rules. It is how the country is build, same as with countries such as Russia and Korea, but you don't talk about those countries. You only talk about China, because they are on the news. As soon as Korea and Russia are on, you start talking about them.

And yes, sometimes it is better to forbid things from being talked about. Not everything should be discussed openly, whereas it is freedom of expression or not.



Yeah, now you say about annexing other countries and such. Ever heard of the term "war?" Why do you think the borders around the Netherlands and Germany are so odd and not even and straight, say like the states in America?
It is because people fought for it. Why do you think Belgium is split up in two? Why do you think there is a South Korea and a North Korea?
Speaking of annexing, do I need to remind you of the Golden Age? The West and East Indies Trading Companies? Don't talk as if China is the only country. The Netherlands have a very black page in their history when it came down to taking land and bringing slaves to America. We took the Antilles, we took Indonesia, people in South Africa speak Afrikaans, which derived from the Dutch language, guess how that came to be? Look up words in the English dictionary, Aardvark, Apartheid, Iceberg and even Keelhauling. Every country takes and loses land, it is a fact.

The big question here would be... why protest now? If you want to change things, why use an event that's appreciated by most and is entertaining, why use this for your own benefit? I mean sure you get more exposure, but it's the entirely wrong way.

Sure, protest all you want, just keep it out of an event that has nothing to do with it.

I agree. The Olympic Games has nothing to do with whatever is going on between Tibet and China.
Just because Tibet uses the Olympics, I already lost intrest in Tibet.
If they had done it otherwise, then it would've been a diffirent story.

Before I begin my rant I have to remind you Pesmerga that the point of discussion between you and me now is this question:
"Can an outsider openly critisize the ways of an independant nation, (China in this case), or protest against the way they 'manage' their country. "

I'm saying yes, and you are clearly saying "no". That's right ey?.

So PESMERGA, if you bring up the bloody and cruel past of the Netherlands, that's COMPLETELY off topic, if a Chinese would start critisizing our 17th century slave trade I'd LET him, I'd agree with him and allow him to speak his mind about it.

"Don't talk as if China is the only country which has annexed countries etc.." I never did such a thing.
"Every country takes and loses land, it is a fact. " I never denied this, the question is if it's "right" or not.

"Are we superior to other races? Are we elite to them?" -Actually if you read my post on the first page you can see that I clearly said that I DON'T think the West is superior, so I don't understand why you are saying this.

"How can you say, with an honest face and 100% truthfully that you what you see on the tele is the exact truth."
I never said this so I don't know why you are saying this, again.

-(I don't want to go into details but if you come up with that "my house my rules" scenario I play along".)

"You cannot judge what happens in China, as I cannot judge what happens in your house." Be careful with saying this because if you say this you mean that IF I would see you beating up your kid in YOUR house. And later I'd say to you " hey, I don't like the way you treat your kids, you should stop or i'll call the child police" (or whatever).

You are saying that I can't do that because it's your house and your rules. Wel if that's what you think, I think you have a serious problem with your way of thinking, a sane person would agree with me critisizing your way of treating your child.


"And yes, sometimes it is better to forbid things from being talked about."
Good job! You are now in fase 1 of becoming a communist, this is exactly the kind of theory a Communist would agree with.
You can NOT forbid those thing in a FREE country.

"Do you really have a clue to what you talk about?" I'm guessing this is a rhethorical question so I"m not going to reply to it, this is very weak of you.

Lastly Pesmerga, one more thing,
"This is called Communism, my fellow Dutchie, that means diffirent rules. It is how the country is build, same as with countries such as Russia and Korea, but you don't talk about those countries" this is what you said,

and frankly, I don't want to go into details but since 1989 Russia has become a kapitalist nation, and only North Korea is communist. But to the point, I'm not talking about those other communist countries because this thread is called I believe, THE OLYMPIC GAMES IN CHINA, maybe you didn't see that last word mate but that's what it's about in this thread, not Vietnam or North-Korea or whatever. So please stay on TOPIC.

Now for Natsuki, I think you are a sensible person and you're saying a lot of things I agree with as well but this statement is very odd to me:

"one really can't have a strong view of what goes on in the country itself unless you're a KNOW the country and what better people know the country than their own citizens that have lived with their laws."

Please do not take me for a fool, you don't need an IQ of 140+ to know that China is an UNFREE country and that they keep their people tied to a rope. I don't need to be able to speak Chinese to know that the quality of Human Rights in China is really bad. You have to stop living in a dream and face the reality, even if it is an unpleasant one.

Also please have a little bit more in the media, stop thinking it's a set-up and that the media is "evil", we're not living in a science-fiction novel.

Why do you people attack communism? I don't know how China practices it, but communism is a good thing.

And Forcystus26, you need to get out of your imaginary world of "good and evil". Wake up and smell the realism.

I can criticize any country all I want, and say whatever I want to whoever I want. If I don't publish the things I say as facts in a newspaper, or say them at a press conference, it isn't even considered slander. So excuse me:

China is a totalitarian caste society with an interior communism and a hardcore exterior capitalism which functions solely for the benefit of the top levels of its society, and completely forgets to raise the standard of living for those at the bottom. It is a mockery of what it stood for in the ealry nineteen twenties and the late nineteen fourties, and Mao Tse Dong's absolute power corrupted him absolutely, only to prove that absolute corruption is subjective when further leaders rose to lead the country. China is essentially a less isolated North Korea. China has effectively created a monopoly on American (and yes, European) goods, as you'll seldom find consumer goods not made in China. A mass boycott of Chinese goods would hurt China moreso than any other way of protest. You don't even have to go and fight a war out there. You'll be knee capping it.



How can you say with an honest face that almost everything on it is a lie? Do you believe in the Illuminati? Do you think the Tienamen square protests and massacres never happened, or something? Those alone are proof of China's insanity.



While I don't completely disagree with you (I agree, in fact), I'd like you to name a country that managed to use communism for good? Now, we're speaking communism, which is an economical policy almost required to take control of socio-political policies in order to work. We are not talking about true democratic socialism practiced by the likes of France, which has thrived over the last fifty years economically. Communism isn't a good thing in the way that it is popularly practiced, and likely never will be implemented correctly because a perfect communism involves a society that is so tiny population-wise that it can also implement a perfect direct democracy. A country like Andorra would be able to pull it off, if it truly wanted to. However, larger countries, as big as Russia and China, or even as small as Vietnam and North Korea would not be able to institute a communism without also putting in place a one party system, therefore ending any chance at democratics.

We attack Communism because it will not work with large population and large nations. It seems the only countries to attempt it are larger than they should. It is because we stopped attacking communism on an economic level that China does not collapse. While it may have been wrong of the US to force a collapse of the USSR which was making progress with human rights and economics at the time, it certainly doesn't seem too wrong with China, which isn't trying to institute change for the better with its own Perestroika.

Communism demands a capable leader to strive for its realization. Communism is unattainable. Maybe not unattainable, but it hasn't been achieved yet. Utopia is unattainable, but people still tried to achieve it.

As for which country kicked it off with communism, it would be Yugoslavia.

There are no problems. Fedor Emelianenko was a torch carrier.



Sounds like the US. Also it sounds like you need to stop reading school text on China made in the 1980's.

LOL, maybe, maybe I wrote it back when I invented the time machine in the future.



Cue "Where are they now?" epilogue.

As I said, communism needs a capable leader. The leader died, and it all went to hell.

I thought the topic was about something else, but whatever floats your boat.



Actually, you brought up things from the past, I simply added to it. The reason is quite simple. You point your finger to China, whereas most succesful countries took land, slaughtered people, far worse than any other country did.
Do I need to remind you about all the Indians slaughtered? See, if you bring up things from the past, in your case the Holocaust and Nazis, then go all the way.



It depends. Is the country in decline? Does it need help? Is it better off if it is a part of another country.
Let me ask you a theoretical question: "Is it better if Belgium splits up in two and merge with the Netherlands and France?" I know that certain Belgians want to, what do you think?



It is because you keep saying things as: "In the West we ...." Sounds you're talking about us being better. As I said before, do not compare the West and the East together.



How much do you know, about what is happening in China?



Let me rephrase that for you. How the government gave you your own rules in your house. You have different rules and pay different taxes. Now, think that scenario again. Is it in my right to stand with 100 activist and rant and rave about you, theoretically, beating a kid? Even if I have no grounded proof?




Ermmm, no seriously. Some things aren't need to be said and are better if they remain silent. Has nothing to do with Communism, or freedom of speech. Just because you can it doesn't mean you have. Some things are better if they're kept private.
Good example, the nude pictures that leaked on the internet in China. Do you think they're better off out in the open? Or should they have kept hidden? I know it isn't exactly the same, but you get my point, I hope.



Actually, you started it.



Speaking of on-topic. Didn't you just changed the discussion earlier in your post? Seriously, if you start being contradicting already, there is no point in even bothering to reply.



Erm... you seem to know an awful lot about China. Where did you gather this information, other than the news? As I asked before, how can you be 100% certain, that everything you just claimed is 100% accurate and based on facts?
I am not making any claims about China, because I can't say that I have been there, nor truly know what is going on, yet you do.
I know Winnie can, because she is Chinese.



The media is not the ultimate form of truth. Media often spins things around, especially when it comes down to numbers.



Not saying it is. Where did I say that? And as what was said earlier, every country has/had its problems. I mean, America invading Iraq, the Netherlands starting slavery. We all have our moments, but that doesn't mean that a country is "insane" all of a sudden.
Just because you can't grasp it, doesn't mean they are the fool. Just to make a funny statement, I think they think the West are "insane" and that we're being the "insane" ones.

Pesmerga, I really don't get you. Firstly, if I say banana's are yellow, will you believe me or do I need to give you evidence? I'm not an expert on China but I do NOT need to prove that China has a cruel, inhumane regime and I know you don't deny this.

Also thank you for giving me this phrase "every country has/had its problems. I mean, America invading Iraq, the Netherlands starting slavery. We all have our moments, but that doesn't mean that a country is "insane" all of a sudden." now I make my point again.

Of course every country has its problems and shameful moments BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT. I think the slave trade was WRONG, I think America invading Iraq was WRONG etc. Don't you think so?

"Just to make a funny statement, I think they think the West are "insane" and that we're being the "insane" ones."
Do you care to explain, I'm puzzled.


Lastly you ask me if I would like Belgium to split up and join France and the Netherlands. Honestly I think that's a good idea because then there would be no language conflict, but you must understand Pesmerga. ANNNEXING is something else than willingly joining another country. It's not because I want half of Belgium to join Holland that I can simply march into Belgium with an army, overthrow the government and force them to join.

Tibet did NOT want to join China, and if you're thinking: "but maybe they're better off now", it is NOT for outsiders to decide. China can not decide what's good for Tibet even if they'd be better off. Think about it, it's like if I would come into your house, kill your family and say: "hey, believe me man, it's better like this".

You're statement about the banana is different. How is this diffirent? Well, it is common knowledge that bananas are yellow, heck even curved.
So, why does this not relate to the current China-Tibet conflict? Well, I ask you again: can you tell me exactly what is going on there? Give me the full details of the entire problem? No, you cannot.
You are referring to the regime of China you heard about, but you have never witnessed it yourself, so maybe you got the wrong judgement.
You seem to narrow yourself down to what you hear and you hear only. I keep telling you to not take everything as fact and maybe get both sides of the story, but all you care about is Tibet, even though you know half the story.

And no, invading countries doesn't make things right, but what does make things right? Meddling with someone else's business? Would you like it if you were arguing with a guy on the street and a big guy would knock you out, because he thinks you are incorrect, even though he doesn't know the reason you are conflicting in the first place?

See, I don't claim to know everything to give a fair judgement. I am supporting China in the Olympic Games and I think it is a shame of Tibet to use the Olympic Games for their own good.

What I meant with my other statement is quite simple. You see Communism as a wrong way of living, but how do they feel about the liberal West? They might think your way of life is the wrong way. See the diffirence? Just because you find it odd, it doesn't mean it is.

Lastly, you say a sentence I have been trying to tell you for several posts now. I quote: "It is not for outsiders to decide."
People always make statements about countries, yet they don't know half of the story.
Say, like how everyone in the Netherlands smokes pot, how Germans eat "bratwurst" and how English people are always binge drinking. Just because you hear strories it doesn't make the truth. I keep trying to tell you that, but you're stubborn.

You already made your choice at the first signs of Tibetan protests. Personally, I think Tibet and China should solve this and other countries should back off.
People such as Richard Gere should use their brains and not tell people to protest. I am pretty sure that most of those people don't even know what it is about and just do it, because others are doing it.

Why do the Olympic Games have to suffer? What have they done to anyone? They are a world wide event, celebrated since the old age in Greece. What have they done to Tibet?
That is right, absolutely nothing. The Olympic Games is an event about sportsmanship and sports, not about Tibet and China.
Tibet is being selfish and uses the Olympic Games purely for their own good, at the cost of all the athletes and fans.
No matter how bad or not Tibet has been treated by China, they are now basically doing a similar thing.
Do you agree with the boycotting? Do you really think the Olympic Games, which is an event that is not restricted to 1 country, but is a world wide event, should suffer for Tibet? Do you really think that Tibet has the right to ruin an event for millions and millions of people, just so that they have a better life?
Remember, the Olympic Games have never invaded a country, or attacked any country. It is an event held in diffirent countries everytime.

1. Stop going off topic to try and prove that you're better at argumenting this.

2.


I find that hard to believe, seeing that the flow of information in and out of China is the most influenced/manipulated, biased (on BOTH sides), and censured/changed for sensualism.

3. As for Tibet, of course the procedure of acquiring it by China probably wasn't the best or most humane, but what the hell does this have to do with sports?

It has nothing to do with the Olympics, but everything to do with the Chinese government. There is one thing you have to understand, it is that the Chinese government is still very archaic in terms of foreign relations, the justice system (the annual execution rate is enough proof of that) as well as its retaliation to such things as rebellions. Along with this out-dated system, comes a great weakness - the fear of embarrassment. If the Olympic games in Beijing are a mess, this will prove that the UN nations that vetoed the Olympic games being held in China were right, and it will all be because China annexed Tibet.

It has nothing to do with sports. As always, people look for ways to empty their frustrations by making other uninvolved people suffer.


@MightOfKerghan -- Nice to see that you took off the blindfold when typing.

What makes it right for you and other countries to try and change their laws through USING the Olympics, an event that unites the world to contribute to this event?

Your statement contradicts your point. It is not for outsiders to decided yet you've decided on a side already.



All of a sudden you can type proper english? x_X'

As I said before, what makes it RIGHT for countries to USE the Olympics, an event that UNITES people from across the world. For a RIGHT cause? In the name of Peace? The Olympics is an event where countries UNITE and show their sportmanship, yet what several countries are doing right now shows the complete opposite of what they're protesting for. It's like the statement "Killing in the name of God", it doesn't make it right and yet you're saying what China is doing isn't right, so you what? "join the club" and do something that means the same thing?

China is still IMPROVING, you say their human rights aren't that great right now, think of how it was back then? It was much worse in the past but they've improved, they can't just change overnight. Heck, what country in the world changes over night? And if you think China's human rights are bad, Korea's human rights are worse - the only reason everyone's judging or even know about China's human rights now is because of the Olympics and Tibet choosing to voice their opinions now with all the media around.

Agreed. You magically speak perfect english, Kerghan. I knew I was a fool for giving you the benefit of the doubt. It was the John Mikrosoft thing.

/mega ot

I am using an diferent translator now. This one better than other one is. Thank Allah.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Olympics turned around and boycotted any countries that are making trouble, and we all know how much an economy thrives by having the Olympic games take place in their country.

Besides, why are they protesting, anyways? China's land and people belongs to China, including its territories. No country should be forced to abide by the moral standards set by someone else.

Gentlemen, there is a HUGE difference between 'forcing' and PEACEFULLY 'protesting'. So I'm not contradicting myself because I ONLY dissaprove of some things China does, I don't march into their country and overthrow the regime and say: "Now you'll listen to me".

Then why do you "peacefully" protest if you don't expect them to listen to you?

That still doesn't justify exploiting a public event for your own use.

Agreed.