This topic will contain Suikoden II spoilers, you have been warned!



Okay, first of all: I've tried to get into this series once, by playing Suikoden II (and I finished it completely). The reason why I'm worried to try any other Suikoden titles is because I didn't like Suiko II very much. But most people say it's the best one of the series, so I'm obviously worried that I won't like the others either, since I don't even like the one generally regarded as the best Suiko game.

But -and this is mainly the reason why I'm here- Athrun told me that with Suikoden III and onwards, the style of the games has somewhat changed. So now I'm anxious to know if I might possibly like the newer Suiko games better? But before you answer that, let me point out what I liked and didn't like about Suiko II.

Likes:
~ Riou, Jowy and Nanami were characters that appealed to me, sadly I can't remember a single thing about any of the other characters (save for Viktor's funny last words to Neclord). I did like where the story was going with Jowy's character, and I was glad that you can get an ending in which he survives (as well as Nanami). I've seen all the endings, so I've seen the best possible outcome too.
~ The music (I have a few Suiko II tunes on my PC). =)

Dislikes:
~ I've played it only once, but I don't remember most of the story. That's not very positive, is it?
~ Having 6 characters to control during battle. I already hated FFIX having 4 characters instead of the usual 3, so having 6 does not exactly make me very happy. xD
~ Too many characters, plenty of useless ones (as was also the case with Chrono Cross).
~ Luca Blight ("I am sublime!" <= DIE, BASTARD!) & Neclord (he was quite cliché).

So yah: basically the battle system, the many useless characters, the lack of a likable villain, and a story that doesn't stick with me have made me dislike Suikoden II. The battle system bugged me so much that I cheated through the entire game. But I kinda regret that now, as I have no idea how hard the game really is. =S

Bottomline, with all I have said above, is there still any chance that I'll like the newer Suiko games?

PS: Athrun, you sent me a huge PM back then with more info regarding the story, but 'fraid to say that I accidently deleted it. Thanks anyway. =P

In general, Suikoden III is liked less than the previous ones. Not that it is a bad game, but I think the step to 3D made a diffirence, as well as the characters. People were expecting a lot of returning characters/cameo's, but that didn't happen much.
Suikoden IV is seen as the worst out of the series. Yes, it does change from the traditional Suikoden II, but in a bad way.
There is little to explore, a lot of water to sail, but not a lot of island to go onto.
Suikoden V changes a little, but takes a lot of things from Suikoden II again.



If that is all you can remember from Suikoden II, I urge you to play it again. The game has a lot more than simply those few things. I mean, if you can't remember the story, you can't really give a fair judgement on the game, now can you?
It is like me saying Xenogears sucks, even though I never played it.



As I said above, it is not really fair if you judge a game you can't remember the story of.

Also, I can't understand the complaint about the 6 characters in battle. I think this is what makes Suikoden unique.
I mean, with 108 characters, there is little point in having 3 characters in battle with you being one of them. Having 6 gives you the option to play, test, mingle and find your own unique group of characters you like.
Too many characters? Well, it is based on a Chinese novel which had 108 bandits... so having less does not make any sense =P.

Your comment about Luca Blight is just blasphemy and you need to wash your mouth =(.



Bottomline: try Suikoden II again. You stated that you can't remember much from the game, yet keep your opinion that you didn't like it.
Also, try Suikoden I, as it will give some things in Suikoden II more meaning, then go for Suikoden III, so that some things have again more meaning, than if you'd play Suikoden III without Suikoden II and then play Suikoden IV and V.

Suikoden IV has a 4 men party, which is not a good choice and every fan complained about it, simply because there are many characters to choose from and not enough places to test them.

Personally, if you dislike Suikoden II, you'll probably dislike the other ones as well. I'd recommend Suikoden V, as it is a very good game, but that is up to you.
As I said, play Suikoden I and II, because you said you didn't like Suikoden II, but the reasons are kinda vague.
Too many characters and plenty of useless ones? Just out of curiousity, how many do you remember and did you actually used while playing the game?

I am not trying to make fun of you, I am simply trying to tell you maybe playing the game again, after Suikoden I, you'll enjoy it better.
Suikoden II is a jewel of a game, which you tried, but obviously can't remember much of it.

Suikoden V is still my best bet after Suikoden II though.

Pssh... The Emulator... You play suiko II too late to seek its beauty Xernie... The problem is... the beautiful graphics and stuff of other games had already gotten into you. Thus to adapt into a game which is so long ago. It gotta take some time to get used to it.

The thing is... the game system has its own appeal. Especially the 2D walk and run. Not to forget, you need to really explore the game's storyline and really... you will fine a much more complex plot then you think its cliche.



Just because side characters aren't hot doesn't mean they aren't memorable Xernie xD. You really lack of exploration of the plot seriously. And I agree with Pes about not remembering the game plot. If you don't know what its going on, how can you say you like and dislike the game lol.



Yes. You have only played it once! Partially, I cannot blame you because can get a little picky sometimes. Also... Having 6 characters in your team is not enough seriously. Lol... The likable thing about suikoden is that, you can never cast a spell or damage the enemy in like 9999 damage and etc Especially when your characters are doing like tens to hundreds all the time, a thousand when the spam all their spell. Also about spells, they also limit you.

In FFVIII, Magic is free. In other series... as long as you have enough ether, its equivalent to constant spamming. Really, thats why you cannot compare this with FF series.

And Yes, Suikoden II is the first and only game the requires 3 parties which is 18 characters to kill one bad guy. Its "Die Pig" by the way.

And about Neclord. He is nothing close to a Cliche... partially because you didn't play Suikoden 1 I suppose.

Too many useless characters? Lol... I'm not going to go through all those history stuff about how they got 108 star of destiny... the origins and stuff. But seriously Xernie. You have to admit that this is part of where Suikoden's beauty lies in. Being REALISTIC! Seriously speaking... You really think a casual group of 6 people with a giant ship(FF VIII, balamb/ragnarok) Is able to prevent a whole army of evil to destroy the world? Come on xD You are in a war. I think 108 characters are not enough.

I can tell you one of the few reasons why people like SII. Its the tactics well used in battles. The raging war.* The Survival Tactics *Spoilers*Shu save a whole kingdom using only 5000 soldiers against an army of 10 thousands*Spoilers*. People dig into the brilliance of how each war battle is done. SII also proves that doesn't mean you have strong weapons in a battle means you can win a war. *spoilers*The flaming spears became useless*spoilers*




How can you enjoy a game when you cheated xD????????!!!!!!! Just like... If I played Xeno series and I said it sucked because I can't stick to the story because the battle system bugged me so I cheated =\ Not being fair Xernie =P

Along with Pes, I suggest Suikoden V as the next game to play.

I agree with pretty much all of what Pes said, so that saves me some typing, haha.

On top of what he said, though, I have to add on that one of the big things like most Suikoden fans find fascinating about the games is indeed related to the characters, as most of them have some sort of background, and many have some significance in the overall plot. A lot of this kind of information, you'd have to do more than just play a single game to find out, however. Take Luca Blight, for example. If all you do is play Suikoden II, then he seems like nothing more than a psychotic killer. However, if you look him up on a site like Suikosource or SARS (aka SuikoX), then you will find some interesting, and rather important background information about him and his family. This is the case with several other characters, as well, so I would urge you to do some research on some characters. (Taking advantage of Richmond in Suikoden II is another way to at least gain some basic knowledge about characters, though some notes are a bit vague, since they're sort of like hints or suggestions.) There is also a lot of important stuff that happens behind the scenes of Suikoden II (as well as after, I think), in another story, known as Suikogaiden. (The main character also makes an appearance in Suikoden III, though since the gaiden games were never released outside of Japan, most wouldn't recognize him in III, unless they did prior research.)

Unlike the Final Fantasy series (most of it, anyway), the Suikoden series all follows the same timeline, hence the reappearances of characters and hearing familiar names and terms throughout the series. Many questions that the players wonder about after playing one game may (or may not) be answered in another. Perfect examples here would, of course, be characters like Jeane and Viki (found in every game thus far, with the exception of Viki missing from Tactics), and Pesmerga and Yuber (more reason to play the first and third games). All four of those characters have shown up in multiple situations, and they're all still shrouded in mystery.

Uh, I probably have more to say. If I do, I'll add it later.

Oh yeah, Dookie made a good point regarding Neclord, whom I forgot to mention.
As I said in my previous post, Suikoden II is better enjoyed when you play Suikoden I, this is due to several reasons.
Hence you should play Suikoden I and then II. Even though II is better, Suikoden I is where the roots are and with only 3 years in time and many returning characters, you're better off playing the first Suikoden and then the second.


Edit:

The Luca Blight background story is, if I recall correct, in the game, just not written down so explicitly, due to the game not being rated R, or whatever America rates.

Lol... xD I hate to admit that... But yeah... we really are geeky fans aren't we lol... To go seek for extra info and exterior plot.

Anyways. Luca Blight... he has a reason for being so evil.

Edit : and no, it wasn't written in the game.

that and Neclord, there is another exterior plot between him and Sierra but that just additional info thats all.

Yes... Almost every suikoden series is linked.

It isn't? I am pretty sure Luca does say something about him and his mother being attacked, while his father had fled.
I just think it was never done in detail as on the website.

His Mother Sara/Sarah(not sure its her name or Jowy's mother's name xD), got raped before his eyes if I remember correctly. Jillia only mentioned alittle about things like.... "My brother is not as evil as it looks" something around this kind... couldn't really put it into detail.

I know what happened, lol, but I am saying that Luca has a confession in the game at some point, which he explained that particular event and why he hates his father, I think just after he and Jowy assassinate him.
He doesn't go into detail, but I am pretty sure he describes why he loathes his father.

He suggests that Agares wronged them (something along the lines of abandoning them, I think), but he doesn't explain it fully.

He said something like, "Don't mention her name" or something about Agares is not worth to mention her name. Something like that.

Information overload. o_Ô

See, the problem is: I have a very good memory when it comes to a game's story. And the fact that I can't remember most of Suikoden II's story just means that it was not memorable for me. Upon reading Dookie's comment about Shu, I remembered that scene again. I'm sure if you point out more scenes, I'll recognise them. It's just all in the very back of my mind. =S

But I guess viewing the story again would be best. Sadly, the battle system is holding me back. I don't care if 6 is more realistic, it sucks. I'd rather read a Suiko II novel than play the game again.

~spoilers ahead~

As for Neclord, sorry to say but I found him very cliché (even his battle theme was cliché suckage). As for Luca Blight, I despise him. I vaguely remember something about his backstory (his mother got raped in front of him, if I recall). But that does not justify his actions in the slightest, and I just waited the whole game to kill the damn bastard. He's ranked highest on my "despicable villains" list. He deserved the painful death he got, but he spoiled my fun with his last words (I repeat: "I am sublime!" <= DIE, BASTARD!). xD

I really don't know about this, maybe I should try Suiko II again, but I have a severe lack of motivation. =/

I planed on posting first in this topic, but things kept turning up so I didn't have time. I'll post later today, reviewing some things you said and comparing them to the other games. Have to go out again in a bit.

The first two Suikoden games are very different in comparsion to the later versions. The first two set the basis for the series. They were the ones that started everything as both were kind of rudementary in their own basis. They were like the building blocks of the franchise.

The other three were made with improvements on the franchise. They modernized it more and added more features to make it more easier to use. I suggest a play from III. III is almost as good as II, but it is a bit more advanced and easier to use. Also, the story is a bit more intricate and in-depth in comparsion to other Suikoden games.

If you want a smaller party, IV only uses 4 characters. IV seems like the most stream-lined as it really doesn't even feel like a true Suikoden game. So, you may enjoy that one as well. Both are worth at least a try and if you don't like either of them, then Suikoden may not be your series. If it isn't, then it really isn't that big of a deal. There are plenty of other games.

You know, I'm kinda worried that this will be the case. And I don't want to waste any money on a game that I most likely won't like. I mean, I can get my hands on Suiko I & II no problemo, but the others I'll actually have to buy first.

So I'm going with the advice of trying Suiko II again. It seems like the best option. But I have 2 other games I need to finish, so this will have to wait for a while. I might play it in between, and possibly make a progression thread (or maybe use this topic for that as well, it's already marked for Suiko II spoilers anyway).

Honestly? I'd probably share the same thought if I began a game of Suikoden II in this age...
But here's what's worth of my two cents.


I'm glad you liked the trio's story, as I simply didn't. But, yeah, Suikoden's tunes are some of the most memorable thus far!


Actually, the larger party size is one of Suikoden's selling point. At least from a purely gameplay point of view, it gives plenty of space to allow as many characters among the 80+ combatants that you get into the current play, without burdening us with too much hassle of micromanagement.

As for the high number of characters, yeah, they do come with varying importance. Few of them are very important throughout the story, some are only prominent during select scenes, others are just extra fodders to meet the 108 quota but if lucky they'd get a full-blown development in another installment. Georg Prime is a primary example here. To a certain extent, Luc, Apple and Futch as well.

I didn't like Luca or Neclord either, so that's natural.


The bottomline: Instead of replaying a game that you didn't find all that striking, I'd recommend for you to try out Suikoden III before completely avoiding the series henceforth. Most fans would scream that it's different from the rest (read: barely noticeable!), but that's where the beauty is, no?

Did you actually sat down for it? I mean, I can't imagine you not grasping any of the story. There is a lot of twists in the story and many things going on, yet not too much so that it gets confusing.

I don't understand why you don't like the battle system though, I mean if you don't like it, then there is seriously no point in playing this game.
It might sound harsh, but the gameplay is an important role in RPGs, as you'll use it alot. If you do not like the fact that you can have 6 characters in your party and recruit 108 and vary around as much as you like, making your own original team, then drop the whole idea. Every fan of the Suikoden genre agrees that having 6 is a trademark item, it is a classic Suikoden thing and most fans were upset with the downgrade to 4 in Suikoden IV.
Six party members doesn't suck, it is gives you more variety than any other game, which is something others games should look into.

Nobody is forcing you to play the game.



Ok, now you are just insulting.



Tell me honestly, what makes a villain a good villain? A villain you loathe, because he's such an arse, or one that wears no clothing?
A good villain makes you hate him, it is a trademark villain thing. If you despise Luca Blight, that obviously means he is doing his work. I love Luca, as he is a monster, and I agree that it doesn't justify his actions, BUT WHEN DOES IT EVER!?
Seriously, does Albedo's youth justify his killings, does Kefka killings? Heck, does Kuja's past justify his manipulation and killing?
I don't see what you are trying to say here. You hate Luca Blight, therefore he is a good villain. FACT

Oh, just for the record, Luca Blight is sublime. What is wrong with an ego wrubbing villain?



Then don't bother. It is as simple as that. If you start playing a game you don't really want to play, you won't like it.
I might sound rude, but there is not other way to say it.
You make a topic here, saying you are interested in Suikoden, yet you tell us various negative things and what you don't like.

Suikoden isn't just a RPG you play like Final Fantasy. All Suikoden games are linked and therefore it needs time and knowledge, which you obviousy don't get if you start with the second. Well, you miss out on the knowledge of the first, which contains some important things and pasts of characters in Suikoden II.

If you're already being picky about even starting the games, better give up now and play others. Do not force yourself to play games you're not fully interested/motivated in.

If you are interested and motivated in playing Suikoden and most importantly, accepting the characteristics of Suikoden, then go ahead. Suikoden is not Final Fantasy, it is not Xenosaga, it is not Xenogears and it is not Shadow Hearts. It is Suikoden, it is a very different game that steps away from the all-time changing Final Fantasy and sticks to its roots (apart from IV). If you can't accept this, leave this franchise alone.
If you are interested in this franchise, better change your opinion and motivation, else you are not going anywhere.

So, again, it probably sounds rude, but I am not upset or anything, nor am I having a go at you. I simply saw no other way to say it. ^^;

Well, then I guess I have no choice but to drop the idea.


Fact is that what I consider a good villain, is a villain which you praise for being wicked cool. Luca Blight is not cool, he's a brutal monster. So no, he's a horrible villain. And as far as I'm concerned he's not sublime at all, he's downright pathetic for his evil ways.

But yes, I guess I'll pass. What you describe in the rest of your post has pretty much convinced me that this series isn't for me.

Pretty much what I'd expect. You expect Suikoden to be like other games, your personal favourites, you're also interested in playing the games, but you can't accept its characteristics.
One thing of playing a game, is accepting the diffirences, stop being so picky.

If my last post changed your opinion so quick, it shows you weren't really interested in playing it in the first place. I mena, I could already tell that from your first posts, as all you did was complain about almost every trademark Suikoden II, the villains, the battle system, the characters and the story.

As I said before, if you were really interested, you'd be open to the style of Suikoden, but you weren't. You asked for Suikoden games that are diffirent than Suikoden II, considered the best. It is like me asking for a Xenosaga game, diffirent that Xenosaga. Doesn't really make sense, does it?

Anout the villain, well excuse me, but a villain means he is doing evil things. He is opposing you in whatever way possible.
No matter how you look at it, it can't be wicked cool. A good villain is a villain you hate, you despise and want dead.
No matter if the villain is a killing machine, an evil manipulator, or a random king, as long as you hate the villain, it is a good villain.
Wicked cool is a term you use for allies, not for a villain.
Kuja isn't wicked cool, Kuja is a bastard, an evil manipulating self centred bastard, that is what makes him a good villain. Luca is the same, he kills and destroys without remorse, has no sympathy and all he cares about is his own power and iron fist.
A good villain isn't soft and gentle, that is the role for the hero. The villain is evil and tries whatever to stop you.
You obviously disagrees with this, so meh..

The only reason why I bothered to come here and make this topic is because I recall Athrun telling me that the style of the games had changed somewhat with Suikoden III (correct me if I'm wrong, Atty xD ). But from what I'm reading in the replies here, the core elements that I dislike are in all of the Suiko games.

So yes, no point in trying any further.

with the exception of Suiko IV and Tactics, the core style of gameplay has stayed the same through the suikoden's, which is why i LOVE THEM. So yes if II did not catch your fancy you may not like the rest.