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Theferrell
I saw this in the paper this morning, and had to post about it:

QUOTE
Berkeley tree-sitters hanging on, 18 months in

By MICHELLE LOCKE – 1 day ago

BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) — In December 2006, protesters angry about campus expansion plans clambered into the branches of a threatened oak grove at the University of California, Berkeley.

Since then, Democrats have chosen their first black presidential candidate, the housing market has taken a dive and gasoline prices have boomed.

Still, the tree-sitters continue to sit.

There had been signs the protest might be coming to an end as a court case challenging a planned multimillion-dollar athletic training facility inched closer to resolution.

This month administrators, who won a court order allowing them to evict the protesters at any time, cut supply lines, yanked a few protesters out of the trees and drove the rest into a single redwood. For a while, it looked like campus officials were prepared to starve protesters out.

But after the remaining half-dozen or so tree sitters said they were a) not moving and cool.gif rationing water, officials relented and offered sustenance to the protesters aloft.

"This misguided effort to preserve a 1923 landscaping project certainly doesn't warrant any action that could cause harm or permanent health consequences for anybody involved," said campus spokesman Dan Mogulof.

Protesters and their supporters say they are prepared to hold out.

"They're very well-trained tree climbers. They're very experienced and I have trust in them that they're going to keep themselves safe and they're going to keep defending the grove," a ground supporter who would give her name only as Citizyn said this week.

UC Berkeley officials say they need the new center to provide safe and up-to-date facilities for their athletes. Once the center is built, the second phase of the project involves upgrading Memorial Stadium — old, dilapidated and sitting right on top of the Hayward fault.

Neighborhood residents, the City of Berkeley and the California Oak Foundation have sued to stop the project, saying it violates environmental and earthquake safety regulations.

A judge issued an injunction blocking construction while the suits were pending and was expected to make a definitive ruling earlier this month. But that ruling turned out to be a bit mixed, with both sides reading victory into its 129 pages.

Alameda County Superior Court Judge Barbara Miller found the new center is mostly legal. However, on the stadium upgrade part of the project, she said the university has to prove some planned work doesn't amount to more than 50 percent of the value of the original building, a state requirement.

On Friday, UC Berkeley filed a response saying it is eliminating the items the judge questioned. Administrators also asked the judge to modify the preliminary injunction, saying there are no longer grounds for preventing construction on the new facility.

Once the judge has issued a final ruling, it can be appealed. But construction could begin earlier if UC is successful in getting the injunction lifted.

On the tree issue, campus officials note that most of the trees were planted by the university in the 1920s. They have promised to plant three trees for every one felled. But tree-sitters say that is not acceptable.

Over the past 18 months, protesters had been cycling in and out, using supply lines stretched over a campus-erected barricade. But the stepped-up campus actions stopped that.

In the past two weeks, the mood has swung wildly.

Protesters howled, flung excrement and shook tree branches as campus-hired arborists cut supply lines and removed gear.

But by late this week, campus police were conducting delicate negotiations with tree-sitters, offering to provide food and water if protesters would lower their waste on a daily basis in the interest of hygiene.

Campus officials ended up giving up the water without concessions; protesters declined to yield their urine.


Ugh, stupid environmentalists, the bane of all Engineers... This is half the reason why I never wanted to go to school in my home state of california. Stupid liberal-hippie-tree-huggers like this make me want to puke or punch an infant.

Comments??
Jerame
I'm not against standing up for what you believe in, but tree-huggers are just a waste of time. You can plop your hippie-ass in tree so tall it breaks the ##### ozone, but it will not stop the law for intervening. I think there are better ways to protest for justice ... besides it's just some ##### trees anyway ... why waste your energy and erupt a campus war over some piddly-ass trees? Take a good ##### look around: We still have plenty of trees. It has not gotten THAT BAD YET.

I don't feel the hippie-sitting vibe. I could save the hassle of living in a ##### tree and just pop acid on my living-room couch. If I'm not too nutty about it, I can keep the authorities off my ass. If you wanna know the honest truth, I think they shouldn't have stop cutting after the tree was down. An opportunity to slaughter that many hippies is a blessing.

Stay outta ##### trees and DO SOME WORK! Be useful as more than just a cheap-joke or a mindless indulgent homicide.
The Evil Dead
Yes. Heaven forbid people fight for what they believe in. Those SOB's.
Suishoko
[We still have plenty of trees. It has not gotten THAT BAD YET. ] its people like you who goes around saying this that caused global warming. Yeah, it has not gotten that bad yet but the key word YET still remains. It is almost like I am going to do my homework tomorrow and the next day you will be saying the same thing.

And I will have you know that trees have done us a great deal. I can give you quite a long list of things that the trees can do just by sitting there. I won't list it but if you want, next post, i would gladly give you one.

What other people do is quite none of your business. Don't go around insulting tree-huggers, for what they do is more than what you can ever achieve
Jerame
QUOTE (Suishoko @ Jun 30 2008, 03:39 AM) *
What other people do is quite none of your business. Don't go around insulting tree-huggers, for what they do is more than what you can ever achieve


I don't care if hippy-##### wanna flop their lazy dicks around in some trees. This is none of my business, but it doesn't change my opinion on it.

And I can't achieve as much as a hippy? Seriously? How hard could it be to sit on your bloated bum-ass and obstruct a building expansion? The intelligence required to tree-sit is minimal --- especially if you're fighting for a cause that can't be won.

Why the hell do you care if people chop down trees? You're not gonna be around to witness the 'ultimate doom of the planet earth'. That's a burden we can just pass on to future generations. They can fix the damage done -- it's not our problem now.
Suishoko
QUOTE
Why the hell do you care if people chop down trees? You're not gonna be around to witness the 'ultimate doom of the planet earth'. That's a burden we can just pass on to future generations. They can fix the damage done -- it's not our problem now.

I care because the so call 'ultimate doom of the planet earth' might happen faster than predicted, at the rate we are going. So it is probably be going to be somewhere in the range of our generation =).

How irresponsible can you get? you want the future generations to fix the problem we caused? Or rather, you want our future generations to be born in a disastrous world and die trying to fix the problem we caused?

And they did more than just sit on trees -.- I did not know that you did not even understand what I meant...it doesn't take that long to understand...well, you see, they sit on trees not for the sake of sitting on trees, they do it because they want to protect the trees which give us shade which in turn makes the world cooler by some few degrees which prevents global warming. Also, They prevent soil erosion and soil seems to be very valuable right now because more and more arable lands are turning into deserts. Do you know what arable means? its means suitable for farming/capable of producing crops. Did I mention that plants and trees have medical uses? Moreover, there are many unidentified species of plants out there that might be capable of producing cures for cancer/aids which I think in future you might need it also. They are also a source of food.

I don't think you are ever capable of doing just one single thing which in turn have so many good effects and outcome.
Theferrell
@ suishoko: I see your point. I just think they're weird... BUT WAIT, they are hating on the athletes because the poor university wants to build a safer facility for athletes to use. (sorry, I side with the athletes on this one.)

It's all the same type of people who are lobbying in Washington DC against the USA drilling for their own oil because it can "harm the environment". I, for one, am tired of paying the same amount of money I could be using on two brand-spankin new video games on one small tank of gas. The day we start telling the environmentalists to shove it and do things the way it should be done, we would be better off.

Also, another tidbit about "global warming". First, the winter was WAY too long this year. The global warming evidently did nothing to Utah this year. Second, most of the places where the data is collected for meterological purposes have changed drastically in the past decade or so. Most places were placed in the middle of the wilderness when first constructed and are now in the middle of parking lots or on top of buildings. The fact that the areas have urbanized slightly can drastically affect the readings from the stations. (little FYI)

@TED, sometimes, standing up for what you believe in is good till the point of sheer stupidity. Staying in a tree for 18 months is sheer stupidity. "So suzy, what did you do at your year at College", "Oh, I just stayed up in a tree the whole time wasting your money on my education."
Raincoat
Actually, I think it's pretty cool that somebody is actually standing up for what they believe in. Even if you don't agree with it, you have to admit they are dedicated to their cause, even if it is just sitting in some trees. Too often do people just stand around and not take a stand. And for some reason, those that do, get ridiculed,

Personally, I am also glad for once somebody is trying to save the environment. I'm sick of looking around everywhere and seeing, where once there was a quiet forest, or a nice park, is now a McDonalds, or some yuppie's 'summer house.'

Sure, now, cutting down a few trees doesn't seem to be doing anything, but just wait for the future.
And the long winter could very well be a sign of global warming. We had a weird season too. Got up to 80F, and suddenly froze and it snowed, and kept doing that constantly. The deer had babies out of season, we lost a lot of crops, and... eh.

Yeah, I actually care about the environment. Does that make me a tree hugger? I don't think so, but if it does, I really do not care. And yes, I am against the drilling of Alaska. Tell me to shove it? I will just shove you right back.
Even if we do drill our own country, do you truly believe the gas will lower in price? Pffft, no. The gas companies have found out they could charge whatever they would like, and we will still pay like the sheep we are because we are so accustomed to driving.
Suishoko
Actually, change in weather is also a sign of global warming. One of the effects of global warming is that dry countries will get even more dry than before which will cause droughts while some countries will have more rain than usual which causes floods. Thats why if Singapore starts snowing, we know that something is very very wrong.

They want to build a safer and up-to-date facility O.o why don't they try upgrading the old one? Since they already plan to upgrade the Memorial stadium, why build a new facility instead of upgrading the old?
Jerame
QUOTE (Suishoko @ Jun 30 2008, 06:55 AM) *
How irresponsible can you get? you want the future generations to fix the problem we caused? Or rather, you want our future generations to be born in a disastrous world and die trying to fix the problem we caused?


I don't think it will get 'disastrous' before someone steps up and takes it seriously, but I don't think that will happen in our lifetimes. I don't care what the ##### happens to the planet after I'm gone. I won't be here, so why the hell would I care if the human race was too dim to save the earth from impending destruction?

QUOTE
And they did more than just sit on trees -.- I did not know that you did not even understand what I meant...it doesn't take that long to understand...well, you see, they sit on trees not for the sake of sitting on trees, they do it because they want to protect the trees which give us shade which in turn makes the world cooler by some few degrees which prevents global warming. Also, They prevent soil erosion and soil seems to be very valuable right now because more and more arable lands are turning into deserts. Do you know what arable means? its means suitable for farming/capable of producing crops. Did I mention that plants and trees have medical uses? Moreover, there are many unidentified species of plants out there that might be capable of producing cures for cancer/aids which I think in future you might need it also. They are also a source of food.


Sitting in trees doesn't 'lower global warming'. It gives you suntan and ass-ache. It also makes you look like a retarded hippy-stoner ##### with no sense to smoke ganja at home. We re-plant trees eventually anyway. You know, when we need #####? It's called supply and demand.

And there's already a cure for cancer Suis. It's Native American, and it's been used for centuries to rid the body of all maladies. Chopping down some trees is not going to deprive us of it at this point.

QUOTE
I don't think you are ever capable of doing just one single thing which in turn have so many good effects and outcome.


There are no effects. It's hippy college kids sitting in trees. There will be no outcome unless the tree population ACTUALLY falls short. If we REALLY start to run outta trees, then we will plant more. Why? Because we NEED them. What the hell are the all making us 'aware' of? That the world is gonna end if we chop down some trees? If you wanna get business off the tree pulp paper companies, support the effort to legalize commercial and recreational cannabis. Hemp is much cheaper to produce and much easier to cultivate and replace.

Don't blame the paper companies, blame the government. They deny the right to legally produce large fields of hemp -- a much better alternative to tree-swinging.
The Evil Dead
QUOTE (Theferrell @ Jun 30 2008, 06:31 PM) *
@TED, sometimes, standing up for what you believe in is good till the point of sheer stupidity.


Funny you should say that. biggrin.gif
Suishoko
QUOTE
I don't think it will get 'disastrous' before someone steps up and takes it seriously, but I don't think that will happen in our lifetimes. I don't care what the ##### happens to the planet after I'm gone. I won't be here, so why the hell would I care if the human race was too dim to save the earth from impending destruction?


It will happen in our lifetime. There is a news report that experts predicted all the ice caps in the artic will melt by the end of september this year. There is a documentary that if the temperature of the earth increase by 7 degrees celcius more, the entire planet will be covered in water. Since the healthcare is very advance now, I don't think you will die any time soon.

QUOTE
Sitting in trees doesn't 'lower global warming'. It gives you suntan and ass-ache. It also makes you look like a retarded hippy-stoner ##### with no sense to smoke ganja at home. We re-plant trees eventually anyway. You know, when we need #####? It's called supply and demand.

And there's already a cure for cancer Suis. It's Native American, and it's been used for centuries to rid the body of all maladies. Chopping down some trees is not going to deprive us of it at this point.


Sitting in trees might be sheer stupidity, or rather, Strikes are even better than just sitting on trees but at least they are making a point. And I meant that if they successfully protect the trees, then we can prevent global warming. Do you even know what is chain effects?

Although there might be cures for some cancer, I don't think it will be of any help when we drown.


QUOTE
There are no effects. It's hippy college kids sitting in trees. There will be no outcome unless the tree population ACTUALLY falls short. If we REALLY start to run outta trees, then we will plant more. Why? Because we NEED them. What the hell are the all making us 'aware' of? That the world is gonna end if we chop down some trees? If you wanna get business off the tree pulp paper companies, support the effort to legalize commercial and recreational cannabis. Hemp is much cheaper to produce and much easier to cultivate and replace.

Don't blame the paper companies, blame the government. They deny the right to legally produce large fields of hemp -- a much better alternative to tree-swinging.


Have you ever tried to plant a tree? Trees do not just shoot up because we are planting them immediately. They take years and years to get to the shape of a big umbrella or a big christmas tree which provides shade....(read previous previous post). Thats why the older the tree, the more valuable. When the population of the trees really fall short, we will have drowned already before we started planting any other trees. Well if we are not drown by then, it will take another few more years to get small waistlength trees and another few more years to get taller ones. By then, we will still be drowned.

Well maybe the next time it won't just be some trees. It will be the rainforest, which takes about....seriously hundred++ years to grow. Anyhow, we will still be drowned, or maybe we will die out of another disaster before drowning.
Theferrell
QUOTE (The Evil Dead @ Jul 1 2008, 03:20 AM) *
QUOTE (Theferrell @ Jun 30 2008, 06:31 PM) *
@TED, sometimes, standing up for what you believe in is good till the point of sheer stupidity.


Funny you should say that. biggrin.gif

I know when to back off though.

I just am saying that in this instance, why should hundreds of athletes be denied a brand new athletic facility that they probably desperately need just because of one tree. Granted it's a friggin huge redwood tree, but it's a tree nontheless.
Suishoko
QUOTE
why should hundreds of athletes be denied a brand new athletic facility that they probably desperately need just because of one tree.


No one answered my question O.o Since they already plan to upgrade the Memorial stadium, why build a new facility instead of upgrading the old?


QUOTE
Granted it's a friggin huge redwood tree, but it's a tree nontheless.


Yes, its a tree but its a huge redwood tree. Do you know how long it will take for it to grow to that height and size? It might be just be another one tree but at least we make a difference for this one while we are losing other trees.
Athrun
QUOTE (Jerame)
Why the hell do you care if people chop down trees? You're not gonna be around to witness the 'ultimate doom of the planet earth'. That's a burden we can just pass on to future generations. They can fix the damage done -- it's not our problem now.

To act so casually about leaving the cleanup to future generations can't be very smart either.
And actually, they can't fix the damage. Not once it goes past a certain point. Damage will have already been done. It has already started, and it's up to us to slow the process down so it doesn't reach the next stages. The further it gets, the harder it is to stop, and the more irreversible damage will already have been done.

It doesn't start with our future generations because it should have started even before us.
Hugo
For some reason I doubt those athletes "desperately" need those facilities. Just my two cents.
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