It seems like a lot of people that are playing games these days no longer attempt to play games without some sort of help. Looking at this forum alone, a plethora of users make a topic about a game they just bought (or find an existing one) and post the sentence, "Is there anything I should know before starting?" I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm guilty of it too, but it's just something I've noticed.

From there, people will get stuck, and then go to a FAQ/Walkthrough/Strategy Guide, or make more posts about it here, in an attempt to get help. That's usually how it starts, at least. Get stuck enough in one game, or get stuck enough in many games, and some people find themselves constantly referring to something to help them through the game. My roommate, for example, won't play a game without a walkthrough on gamefaqs pulled up on his screen. I guess I should be more specific, and say that he does this the most with RPGs.

Then it occurred to me that I'm guilty of the same thing when it comes to RPGs. I find myself constantly looking back to see if I've missed anything, to see how to beat the damn boss that's killed me only God knows how many times (World Balance from P3, anyone? Or... well, a lot of the bosses from P3's Tartarus), to see what's coming up to prepare myself. And sometimes, even, for spoilers.

And for a while there, games (specifically, RPGs) were getting boring for me. I couldn't sit through them, I'd just be at my computer, with the controller in hand, checking up on everything to make sure I didn't miss a thing. There was no exploration, there was no finding things out on my own, there was no more frustration from bosses I couldn't defeat (I didn't realize how much I missed that feeling until recently); generally speaking, there was no "HEY LOOK WHAT I FOUND, HOLY CRAP!" moments. Games were boring, and the only reason I played them was for the story (and if the story sucked, or started to get really slow, I'd be done with it).

A couple weeks ago though, my laptop died, leaving me without a computer. If you know me at all, you know that I've got a bunch of games that are unopened because I don't have the time to play them. And since I didn't want to continue anything I had been playing previously (because that would take away from my beloved 100% completion of the game), I cracked open something new. Namely, Digital Devil Saga 2 (yes, it was unopened. And yes, I probably could've sold it and made some money).

During the two weeks without my laptop (and thusly without some sort of gaming help), I fell in love with gaming again. Everything I did was new, I explored every nook and cranny, I tried to max everything out, I fought bosses (and got righteously pissed, resulting in a new controller) that I had no idea how to tackle. It was actually really fun, and I was really pleased with myself for getting through it with no help whatsoever. I'm sure I missed a lot of stuff, but at that point, I didn't care. It was like I was a born again gamer (/horrible pun). Boss battles had a rush to them that I hadn't felt outside of playing a fighting game with a complete stranger. For some reason, without any help whatsoever, the game just seemed better.

So of course, I had to test out my idea. After all, maybe DDS2 is just a good game by itself (I know a lot of people think so)? I opened up and popped in Phantom Brave, and haven't asked for any help whatsoever with the game. I'm still playing through it, and it still feels like a totally new experience (minus the fact that it feels like Disgaea with new paint, lol).

My question, then, is this. Do you think FAQ's/Strategy Guides/Walkthroughs detract from what makes a game fun? Is that "I'm doing something new" feeling really that important? Or does 100% completion really matter that much? Does it apply to games outside of RPGs too?

Some people I know, and I used to be one of them, would play through the game once without any help at all. Maybe a minor question when stuck at a boss fight or something, but that would be it. From there, they'd do a second run through, using some sort of guide to collect everything. Is that the way games, and more specifically, RPGs, should be played?

I'm not entirely sure what sparked this, lol. I was walking home from work, and I was really excited about playing Phantom Brave when I got home. It's been a long time since I've been excited about being able to play a game when I get home, and I think part of it is because of the "I'm doing this without any help" idea. It gives a greater sense of accomplishment when I finally beat a difficult boss, or finally beat a difficult game.

It's a thing that comes with the information age, and doesn't exclusively apply to gaming either. People are used to looking things up, but as you say, it does remove alot from the challenge.

I guess I'm somewhere in between there. I don't like doing it myself, but I have a tendency to find out IF I've missed something important in a game I play, say, after a boss battle or something (take MGS3 for example, I'd try and figure out what I'd miss out by playing out certain fights in certain ways). The challenge was still there, but I'd just make sure I'm not missing anything vital. Otherwise I'm pretty much the same, say when it'd come to an RPG. I'd have to explore every nook and cranny, and make sure I had the whole map etc. Maybe if I'd be stuck on the same thing for a couple of days in a row I'd look it up, or some frickin puzzle, but besides that I don't know if it was ever a problem. It'd be cheating yourself, and removing the longevity of the game that was intended for it.

This.

I used to use that policy. First playthrough, no cheating/guides/walkthroughs. Nothing. Totally natural run. Then if I go to play the game again, I play however I want. I use cheats if they apply, look at guides, whatever.

But recently, I've even caught myself cheating that policy. I'm getting too spoiled. Now, even on my first playthrough of games, I find myself constantly giving in to that little voice in the back of my head. Hahahaha! You're missing things! You missed a really useful item in that last area! You're never going to experience something good!. That little voice always pushing you to make sure you get everything.

With me, it's because I don't have as much time as I used to. I'm sure that's the reason. I used to play games a bunch of time, because I had so much time on my hands. Now that I can't afford to spend time playing games all the time, that little voice is always there, telling me that if I don't accomplish all there is to accomplish on this playthrough, I'm never going to be able to experience the entire game. So I give in and check a guide. And it does ruin the sense of urgency and accomplishment, as you described. It's not necessarily a good thing. Ever since I realized I'd been relying too much on outside sources, I've been telling myself I need to do something about it.

But then, I'm torn. I always want to be sure I try to experience the whole game on my first try now, because I don't often have the time to go back and play again for things I've missed. I'm always battling myself over it. I'd say it definitely does sometimes spoil things. But that's the way things are with everything. You weigh the good against the bad and make the best choice you can.

The only thing that FAQ's/Strategy Guide take away is the surprise factor. However, if you find one that doesn't spoil the story, then that usually voids that fact as well.

Games are so big nowadays that you almost need them nowadays. Not using one in the earlier days was fine because they couldn't help all that much besides finding the small secrets. However, with 40-60 hour games and so many little things inside them, they have become a necessity if you want to find everything and not go through the game like 2 or 3 times.

I use them a lot. I enjoy using them as they help and even enhance my gaming experience. My best friend never uses them and hates them for your reasons. It is all up to the person. Some like them, some don't. I'ts not really that vital in the long run.

i only use guides to help me at certain points, like where to go when an objective is blatantly vague, or when i have trouble with a boss [like Killalon in Lost Odyssey] and to find out what else i can do when i want to take a break from the story- especially when i'm playing an RPG.

otherwise, i play the game without aide of guide.

I enjoy playing the games using the guide only to access like sidequests and things like that as some people do not want to do another playthrough of the game for awhile, as some people have lives and don't really have time to play games much.

I think FAQs don't kill the fun. But I think people who get stuck in the game then should take a sneak peek. But other then that. It should be alright.

But if the gamer finish the game once. He should then check it out what he have missed for a replay value =p

Thats how i feel.

I generally ask questions regarding a game only because I don't want to suck at it. I usually reserve FAQ's for after I've beaten a game, or if I'm totally stuck with no hope of figuring it out on my own. I'm also guilty of looking at secrets FAQs for games because I don't want to miss any side quests/items/characters etc.

I don't really think it takes away from the fun, I'm looking to get the most out of my games and sometimes a little bit of information helps.

I'm not really worried about getting stuck, but more about missing out on some fun optional things.
My main problem is that these days I don't feel like I have time to replay the same game again just to get X-attack or X-character or X-ending.
That said, I usually don't follow walkthroughs at the same time I'm playing, but rather specific guides like "character recruitment/missable characters" for Suikoden V.
In Chaos Wars that I'm playing now, you often get the choice between one out of two characters. The character you don't chose, you'll miss forever. And the conditions for getting the characters can be very unclear at times. Some times you need to use a specific move with a specific character, or kill a boss during a specific turn. How am I supposed to know that??

That's why I tend to ask "is there anything I should know?" when I start, because that info might be 93% into the FAQ, and since I usually go to it only for specific things, I might not see it.

But there are some rpg's I play using a FAQ constantly. Tales of Abyss for example because it had so many optional events that were mandatory to get certain things like costumes or special attacks. It was pretty un relaxing to move to the computer and start reading all that text against a white background after each event was finished. It might have been more relaxing if I had a laptop.

I don't read everything though, so there is still some exploring and discovery. Some games more than others. But at times it does take away quite a bit of those things.
But since I most likely won't be replaying the games (the last rpg I replayed was Suikoden 3 when the English version came out) I'd rather get those things that I enjoy than to miss out on them. The cameo costumes for Wild Arms 5 for example.

I wouldn’t really say they make games less fun, but I generally don’t like to use them. Sure, sometimes when I get stuck and seriously can’t figure it out I’ll either ask here on the forum or my sister (assuming she’s played the game), but otherwise I like to just struggle through it. Of course, what with there being so many games and the fact it takes a long time to get through some of them on the first run-through even, it’s understandable that people would rather just have a guide to reference so that they don’t miss out on stuff. It’s just not something I really use personally. *shrugs*.

Playing Suikoden II without a guide was fun ;p. Man I missed so many characters. Something like 30. Some I didnt even know was in the game LOL. That said, I use them so I don't miss stuff in the current segment of where I am at.

No, I don't believe it takes the fun out. Yes I use guides.

Why?

Resident Evil: Code Veronica X.

Nuff said.

Definitely does not take the fun out for me. If anything, it's the only thing keeping me from continuing the game when things get rough and I just want to throw the controller at the screen. I get really frustrated easily when it comes to difficult games. :\ I also end up giving up if I can't just continue on, since I have a pretty low tolerance for getting stuck in ONE area for too long. I try to use FAQS sparingly, but sometimes I just get uber-dependent on it. ;x (ie; Persona 3 social link script lols)

I only use guides to make sure that I am not missing out on items/characters/whatever.
I like to collect everything in 1 go and not play the entire game again, for just 1 item.

In Suikoden V, it is pretty much impossible to get all 108 characters, unless you know where they are and how to get them beforehand. The missing out rate is ridiculous, sometimes even being 1 tiny scene in between 2 big scenes.

Thus, I use guides to make sure I am collecting everything I want in the game.